PS4 NA v1.00 Master Bug List

[Queue]

I'm curious if frame rate drops might be a problem with some PS4 hardware.

That's highly improbable. Enough individuals have reported this issue to rule out hardware defects, because the statistical odds of every affected user having a PS4 from the same production batch and/or with the same hardware defect is inconceivably low. I haven't had this problem with any of my other DLC games.

More than likely, the stutter is universal, but as with the audio bug, it's more noticeable on certain displays than others. For example, the low-quality audio was very pronounced on my TV speakers, but it was much more subtle on my friend's audio setup. That is a more logical explanation for why a few of you don't notice the stuttering.

 

[Kong Wen]

Funhouse, skill shot is impossible.

It's ridiculously hard and takes some nudging, but it's not impossible. I've only done it once.

A goal-related bugs I've noticed: on Scared Stiff, I scored the Spell save reward but it didn't register & clear the goal. It gave me the message and relaunched the ball and everything.

 

[smbhax]

That's highly improbable. Enough individuals have reported this issue to rule out hardware defects, because the statistical odds of every affected user having a PS4 from the same production batch and/or with the same hardware defect is inconceivably low. I haven't had this problem with any of my other DLC games.

More than likely, the stutter is universal, but as with the audio bug, it's more noticeable on certain displays than others. For example, the low-quality audio was very pronounced on my TV speakers, but it was much more subtle on my friend's audio setup. That is a more logical explanation for why a few of you don't notice the stuttering.

Have you tried using the green ball yet?

 

[Queue]

Have you tried using the green ball yet?

Yes, I have. The stutter still persists. I have also played for considerable durations with each light mode, and stuttering occurs regardless.

I can assure the few of you who don't notice any stutter that it isn't an optical illusion, nor is it caused by defective hardware. It is a reoccurring phenomenon that manifests exclusively on this game. I don't know what to call that other than a bug, and I am absolutely convinced that the very small number of you who claim to experience no stuttering simply haven't noticed it, which can likely be attributed to your particular displays.

Those who have experienced stuttering now overwhelmingly outnumber those who claim to have not, and I think that needs to be taken into account, considering that initial reports of the audio glitch were similarly downplayed until official confirmation was received from Farsight.

 

[brakel]

Yes, I have. The stutter still persists. I have also played for considerable durations with each light mode, and stuttering occurs regardless.

I can assure the few of you who don't notice any stutter that it isn't an optical illusion, nor is it caused by defective hardware. It is a reoccurring phenomenon that manifests exclusively on this game. I don't know what to call that other than a bug, and I am absolutely convinced that the very small number of you who claim to experience no stuttering simply haven't noticed it, which can likely be attributed to your particular displays.

Those who have experienced stuttering now overwhelmingly outnumber those who claim to have not, and I think that needs to be taken into account, considering that initial reports of the audio glitch were similarly downplayed until official confirmation was received from Farsight.

1) What kind of TV do you think would be capable of masking a game stuttering problem?

2) Have you captured this on video yet? It is really easy to capture the video on a PS4 via the share to facebook feature. Then it can be shared with FarSight's TPA page. It captures previous game play video so it's not something that you have to setup in advance. Just hit share after the event happens. Then you can cut down the video to just a minute or so.

3) It's not that I haven't noticed the problem it's that I haven't experienced the problem yet. I am a hyper observant person and this kind of problem will bother me as much as it is bothering you. I've had stuttering and slow down issues in many games on the PS3 and I had no problem seeing those. I'm quite sure that if we figure out the game play or setting differences between those of us that have not had the problem and those who do that it will be key in FarSight being able to isolate and fix the issue.

4) I'm not sure why you think that an overwhelming majority of people are experiencing the issue.

5) If there were a hardware problem causing the issue it very well could involve a large number of units.

 

[smbhax]

initial reports of the audio glitch were similarly downplayed until official confirmation was received from Farsight.

I'm afraid I have to take pretty much all the blame for that, apparently I'm exquisitely insensitive to audio quality. >_<

 

[joeblow]

At least with the audio bug, anyone with the PS3/X360/PC version could easily replicate the claim by playing the game for five seconds after trying out the PS4 version. The difference in quality was then immediately apparent. Similarly we should be able to conduct a qualitative test for the stuttering claim, but so far we have not been given a satisfactory method to do so.

I can assure the few of you who don't notice any stutter that it isn't an optical illusion, nor is it caused by defective hardware. It is a reoccurring phenomenon that manifests exclusively on this game. I don't know what to call that other than a bug, and I am absolutely convinced that the very small number of you who claim to experience no stuttering simply haven't noticed it, which can likely be attributed to your particular displays.

No assurance is needed, only evidence such as a video or a detailed account that allows others to replicate the claim - just like pretty much all the other reports in the bug sub-forum. Unlike pretty much any of those bug reports, you have players who have tried to replicate the issue and are not successful in doing so.

That's why the investigation into the claims should continue. I mean, look at the current list of General PS4 Bugs - each and every one of them is easily reproduced so that the findings are not contested, or there is tangible proof (a photo in this case):

General Game Bugs
1. Room brightness selection doesn't save after restarting the game.
2. Controller vibration doesn't work.
3. Sound quality issues.
4. Initial entry background seems stretched out. Should have more rounded corners. (Photo)
5. Reports of nudging that has stopped working on the non-emulated tables.

~~~

Now your latest theory is that the problem with our lack of findings is with our display models. That makes no sense to me, but let's flesh it out. For that theory to be true, it would mean that TPA has stutter in many of its tables that rears its ugly head frequently enough to be noticed by anyone with a quality display, but if one's display is sub-par then the game plays silky smooth? I can't wrap my head around that at all.

I am a hardcore fighting game player and have been for almost 20 years. If there is one tech issue that the community is on top of, it's the effort to replicate the zero-lag, stutter free experience on home consoles with fighting games that we get in the arcade. Towards that effort, I've read and participated in a ton of threads on this issue over the years and have never even heard of this strange phenomenon. But, again I won't outright say it is impossible. Simply link us to some proof of it occurring in any game. I'm always open to learning something new.

Either way, I can safely eliminate my display from having that issue. On another gaming forum, I've posted about my issues with stuttering in Skyrim within the last four months as well as how I fixed it (PC version, played on my HDTV via HDMI). If this strange theory existed on my display, I wouldn't have experienced the stutter. I also had the issue with Team Fortress 2 before resolving the problem.

This observation reveals two things about me and my setup: A} I do recognize what stutter looks like (it annoys the heck out of me), and B} my HDTV is capable of revealing stutter that may exist in a game. So the fact that I haven't seen stuttering in TPA is because I haven't experienced it.

Back to TPA, despite the reluctance by those above to give us reproducible specifics about TPA stutter claims (or videos or something tangible), I continue to look for it. I've tried almost every table, but most I haven't yet put in quality time just yet. For those, in a few games here and there (including some decent runs with lots of SFX going on), I've seen no stutter.

For AfM, I've beaten the table, earned 9/10 Goals, played 4-ball multiball with all kinds of background lights, bells and whistles going on and with the dynamic camera turned on while in different lighting modes - zero stutter. I've tried multiple angles since the claims above, same fruitless results.

For Taxi I've gotten a ton of jackpots, delivered all the characters several times, gotten 7/10 goals and activated multi-ball too many times to count with all the SFX going on (almost 15 million is my best PS4 score so far, so there was a lot of events triggered). Zero stutter.

Lastly, I've watched some PS4 TPA video uploads online, which is easier than ever for people to do due to Share Mode. I've not seen any stutter. None of the reviews mention it either.

And while I'll repeat that this doesn't mean that some people out there aren't having some problem (even if it is case-by-case individual issue), it's also important that FS isn't sent on some wild goose chase looking for something that may have nothing to do with their game. They have plenty on their plate already, and in the end, it isn't too much to ask for something solid from those making claims for the rest of us to replicate stuttering if this issue is supposedly so pervasive in TPA.

 

[Cyborg]

I would like to add my voice to the list of those affected by the stuttering... It is definitely no illusion, but very real (and annoying). While it is mostly noticeable during multiball (AfM comes to mind), I have also seen this occassionally with only one ball active (TNG). I tried creating a video of AfM during Strobe Multiball, but the PS4 share recording does not have an adequate framerate to show the problem.

I don't believe that it's a hardware issue in the PS4 base unit, so the fact that not all are seeing this got me thinking... What if it's a peripheral device or system function that's interfering? Here's a question for you and maybe something to try: Do any of you who are seeing this problem have a PS4 camera or a headset connected? If yes, try disabling the voice command functionality (in Settings -> System -> Operate PS4 with Voice).

While this did not completely eliminate the stuttering for me, it alleviated it greatly - enough to be acceptable, in my opinion. If you experience the stuttering and do NOT have a camera or headset connected or the voice commands are already disabled, then, I guess I'm wrong about this and it was just wishful thinking on my part...

 

[joeblow]

I have the camera connected with voice enabled. I have played an immense amount of AfM pinball with TPA, including clearing all of the missions to beat the table. That includes a lot of multi-ball action, but not one instance of stuttering.

EDIT: BTW, YouTube plays back videos at 30 fps, but there are PLENTY of stuttering videos for various games. Here's one from the PC version of Skyrim. The game can be played pretty easily at 60+ fps, but YouTube runs it 30 fps.

Despite that, stuttering is obvious, so the excuse that it won't show up on captured PS4 TPA videos doesn't fly. I've watched plenty of streams now and have seen absolutely no stuttering.

If the issue is so pervasive in the PS4 version, it shouldn't be a problem to simply show it in a video as many have done in other games. If not show it, detail exactly under what circumstances it happens so we can easily reproduce it ourselves.

 

[Cyborg]

I have the camera connected with voice enabled.

Well, so much for my theory. Guess I was just imagining it.

Despite that, stuttering is obvious, so the excuse that it won't show up on captured PS4 TPA videos doesn't fly.

It's not so much an excuse as it is fact. I just saved another capture of a bad multiball on AfM where I lost the last two balls simultaneously due to stuttering. On previewing the video I cannot detect it though - it's just not there. Either it's *really* not there or it get's lost due to the lower frame rate.

If not show it, detail exactly under what circumstances it happens

If only it were that easy. It feels as if it's completely random. I tried different settings (brightness, camera view), different tables, but more or less it happens in every game. Most of the time it's just for a second or two and then disappears again, even with a single ball. It seems more pronounced in multiball, but I don't know if that's really a factor, as it's not the case in every table. I played LITZ in Twilight Zone and it was totally smooth. Maybe the amount of lights is a factor, but then you'd have it too. <sigh> Or it might be solar flares or the moon phase...

 

[Queue]

Now your latest theory is that the problem with are lack of findings is with our display models.

My latest theory? If memory serves me well, I recall that it is you, and the one or two others who deny that this is a problem, who are theorizing. Lies, hallucinations, defective hardware — pretty much anything OTHER than it being a bug has been asserted by one person or another throughout the course of this discussion.

The only thing that I have maintained is that, based upon the amount of users who have reported this issue, statistical odds favor it being a bug. For those who have commented upon this matter, either at this forum or at Facebook, those who claim to have encountered stuttering overwhelmingly outnumber those who claim to have not, so again, it's simple statistics. If you want to argue against Occam's razor, knock yourself out, but it doesn't make anything that you say appear any less ridiculous.

Some displays have what is called frame rate interpolation, usually advertised as 120hz+ refresh rate. This is a trick used by panels to smooth out the frame rate by inserting artificial frames between real ones, so that 60 frames a second looks like 120 frames a second, and so on and so forth. Had you not been ignorant of this, you would have realized that the type of display that you're using can impact your ability to see the stutter, depending on whether or not it has this feature. I'm not "theorizing" anything. I deal with facts, not inane hypotheses.

I just saved another capture of a bad multiball on AfM where I lost the last two balls simultaneously due to stuttering. On previewing the video I cannot detect it though - it's just not there. Either it's *really* not there or it get's lost due to the lower frame rate.

This is exactly why I haven't bothered to upload a video. The stutter is subtle enough that it wouldn't be captured at the PS4 video's 30 frames a second. The stutter never appears to drop the frames below the high 40s, but it is visible while playing at 60 frames a second on a big LCD. If someone doesn't notice it at 60 frames a second, they certainly won't notice it at 30.

 

[smbhax]

I'd think I'd notice it if it caused me to lose a ball, though! That would suck. Well, I'm having a friend over to play the game with me tomorrow, he's used to playing in very high framerates on top-of-the-line PCs, maybe he'll be able to spot something I'm missing.

Incidentally, are you guys streaming when you get the stuttering? I'm pretty much always streaming.

 

[brakel]

My latest theory? If memory serves me well, I recall that it is you, and the one or two others who deny that this is a problem, who are theorizing. Lies, hallucinations, defective hardware — pretty much anything OTHER than it being a bug has been asserted by one person or another throughout the course of this discussion.

The only thing that I have maintained is that, based upon the amount of users who have reported this issue, statistical odds favor it being a bug. For those who have commented upon this matter, either at this forum or at Facebook, those who claim to have encountered stuttering overwhelmingly outnumber those who claim to have not, so again, it's simple statistics. If you want to argue against Occam's razor, knock yourself out, but it doesn't make anything that you say appear any less ridiculous.

Some displays have what is called frame rate interpolation, usually advertised as 120hz+ refresh rate. This is a trick used by panels to smooth out the frame rate by inserting artificial frames between real ones, so that 60 frames a second looks like 120 frames a second, and so on and so forth. Had you not been ignorant of this, you would have realized that the type of display that you're using can impact your ability to see the stutter, depending on whether or not it has this feature. I'm not "theorizing" anything. I deal with facts, not inane hypotheses.



This is exactly why I haven't bothered to upload a video. The stutter is subtle enough that it wouldn't be captured at the PS4 video's 30 frames a second. The stutter never appears to drop the frames below the high 40s, but it is visible while playing at 60 frames a second on a big LCD. If someone doesn't notice it at 60 frames a second, they certainly won't notice it at 30.

I believe that it is a problem. I also still think that figuring out why some people have the problem and some don't will help figuring out what is causing the problem.

Having said that I would like to point out that the number of people that have posted that they have a problem compared with how many people have posted that they don't have a problem is statistically irrelevant because most people don't post about problems that they don't have. It is a minority of us that will post up about a problem that we aren't having in order to help others figure it out even at the risk of being accused of being blind, technically illiterate or trying to sweep the problem under the rug.

I do not run my TV at 120hz. I also turn off all other picture processing that my TV does. However even in the best circumstances the 120hz display with interpolation can't make up for all the missing data. Since the frame loss is great enough to cause you to lose a ball, then the frame loss is going to be too much to be accurately made up by interpolation. The physics in TPA regularly calculates the location of the ball at 120 times per second but can go even higher. That gives you an idea of how fast things are changing. Even with interpolation you're going to get visual problems when slow downs occur.

I do like technical mysteries though and will keep trying to replicate the problem. The good thing about not having the issue is that once I'm able to replicate the error all I will need to do is figure out what is different in order to determine the potential causes or the circumstances that lead to the cause.

 

[Queue]

I believe that it is a problem. I also still think that figuring out why some people have the problem and some don't will help figuring out what is causing the problem.

I think that I've exhausted just about every argument in favor of this being a bug, so I'm going to politely cease from discussing this for the time being. Throughout the course of this discussion, we've accomplished practically nothing, because no one still has any idea as to what is the cause; and at this point, we're only beating a dead horse.

It's impossible to prove or disprove who's seeing what, because the PS4 can't capture the stutter on video, and the few of you who claim to have no stutter apparently don't even know what to look for. If anyone has pertinent information to share, your contributions would be greatly appreciated, but as for me, I'm withdrawing until I have something new to report. Ciao.

 

[Dumahim]

I've seen a slight stutter once in a great while, it's hard to notice and certainly nothing that'll throw off my game.

 

[smbhax]

the few of you who claim to have no stutter apparently don't even know what to look for.

I suppose that broad brush included me, but I do know what framerate stutter is. I'm not seeing it in this game. I've played the same tables and the same broad situations you guys have described, and the framerate has remained glassy smooth. I haven't lost a ball due to anything aside from the usual TPA bugs (ball through flippers, table loses track of ball, etc) or my own poor play. I'll keep looking out for it, but so far this is a real head-scratcher. It sucks that your experience with the game has been sub-par, but is it fair to accuse those of us who don't seem to have the problem with simply imagining things, when you yourself took great umbrage at the thought that we were thinking you were imagining things yourself? Since we're all playing this game separately, all we can do is compare notes and try to communicate as clearly as possible. I suggest making a thread devoted to this problem, like the famous "flipper lag" thread in the PS3 forum, so that bits of experience and discussion can continue to accumulate around it. Eventually something will come to light.

It might be worth pointing out that the most concrete description we have of the stutter so far is stone's, from the previous page of this thread. One thing that may be throwing people off about this thing is that some descriptions make it sound frequent, while others make it sound sporadic; some make it sound violent, others make it sound subtle. If it is subtle and sporadic, I can understand how not everyone has noticed it. Reporting simple numbers like average number of occurrences per hour of play, average duration, estimated framerate drop, and so forth, can be very useful in a case like this. I'm starting to wonder if it's more subtle than what I've been looking for.

Trying to think of other variables... I've turned my PS4's system music off. I don't have PlayStation Plus. I've turned off "Operate PS4 with Voice."

 

[Queue]

It sucks that your experience with the game has been sub-par, but is it fair to accuse those of us who don't seem to have the problem with simply imagining things, when you yourself took great umbrage at the thought that we were thinking you were imagining things yourself?

You're interpreting what I said a bit too harshly. I did not mean to chide your observations. I'm simply saying that the couple of you who have contributed to this discussion, yet haven't noticed stutter, do not know what to look for because you haven't seen it (apparently).

I can firmly attest that the stutter I've experienced in this game is unlike any frame rate stutter that I have ever seen. It's not a pronounced drop in frame rate that you would see in your standard graphically intensive first-person shooter. It's a very subtle stutter that seems to occur at random, without any apparent cause. It happens with one ball, two balls, three balls, four balls. It happens with bright, neutral, and dark light modes. It happens at every camera angle. I've said previously that it seems to occur more often with the dark light mode, but it may simply be more noticeable at this setting because the animated areas of the tables are more pronounced. I would like to attribute specific factors as the cause, but I can't pin it to anything because I honestly don't know what's causing it.

The inherent problem of bug reporting on the internet, especially of something that's visual in nature, is that there is a certain degree of subjectivity in the observation of things. I hate to mention the audio bug again, but it's so pertinent to this discussion that I will for sake of convenience. The audio was perfectly tolerable to you, but to my ears, it was utterly atrocious. I instantly noticed it the second I launched TPA on my PS4 for the first time. We have different ears, though, and completely different audio setups, so we will inevitably perceive things differently. You could very well not have any stutter, but because I can't see the game on your display in person, it's impossible for me to compare your experience with my own. I only have your word to go by, as you do mine.

The number of users who have reported stuttering, either on this forum or on Facebook, is now approaching twenty, and going by that alone, I would be inclined to say that it is a universal issue, which some of you fail to notice for whatever reason. I have no way to prove that, though, because there are unknown countless persons who play the game and have not said anything at all, either because they don't have it, don't notice it, or aren't bothered by it. Whatever the case may be, I feel that the discussion has reached an impasse and that none of us have anything of worth to contribute, other than what has been already been said throughout the span of this discussion. For that reason, I'm going to bow out until I have new information to share. Nevertheless, if any one of you ever happens to discover a solution to this problem, I would be more than delighted to hear it.

Cheers.

 

[smbhax]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I've been playing CV on Dark mode for about two hours solid looking for framerate stuttering, and man the light strobing in this table does strain the eyes trying to follow that unnaturally dark ball around. Blargh. (Plus I kinda hate CV anyway. : PP)

It wasn't a total loss though 'cause I found a bug whereby if the ball goes just most but not all the way up the left ramp when ball lock is enabled, it doesn't actually lock, but the table acts like it locked, which of course leads to all kinds of problems with the ball count and Highwire multiball. That can't be new to the PS4 version, can it? I didn't see it in the (biggish) list of CV table bugs.

EDIT: A player on TPA's Facebook page told me that problem exists in the real-life version of the table--in which case it wouldn't be a TPA bug.

 

[Warped Trekker]

No stuttering so far on my plasma tv. But I did notice an odd thing in CV. The balls are so slow and floaty and then all of a sudden, BAM, they speed up and drain fast. Its like we went from slow motion to very fast game speed all of a sudden.

 

[JCChaconJr]

I'd like to add to the nudge bug, if it will help FS track it down. I've had it happen on both Big Shot and Black Knight so far, and it always seems to happen after I load the table after having played another table first. In other words, if I select one of those tables first after launching TPA, I have yet to experience it.

With regards to the Gorgar bug. I know that the bumper bug does not exist, and if I'm not mistaken, the PS3 and Vita versions work correctly. It's been a while since I've played them, so I will have to revisit that. If it's indeed the case, then the bug may be with their middleware that ports the code from one platform to the other.