Request Stop selling two tables at the same time please

[brakel]

Let's keep it civil, people...there's been too much drama already in the past week, and I'm not in the mood to deal with more. Keep your posts confined to the arguments, and not the personalities behind them.

Sean, you just post this when the threads boil down to nonsense.

 

[night]

so, if some people did not buy a ford focus because they dont like it (for some reasons) - is it loss of money for ford as long as other people still buying it?

No, what I mean is, if I could buy a table from a pack I like, I would, instead of not buying the whole pack because it contains a table I don't want.
But that's me, you know. I have bought packs with tables I don't like, but then I REALLY love 1 table at least. Most packs are good, but there are some with winners and stinkers in them and I refuse to buy it. The old policy was good, in my opinion.

 

[vpalmer]

i cant understand a reason - if you buy only every second table from season 1 and core pack for individual table prices - then you must pay 30 $ which is a season 1 pass price and you take twice more tables for it..then what is a rational reason to not take season pass?

 

[shutyertrap]

For some people, it's the principle of the matter. "I only like this one table, you want me to buy both, so I'll show you and buy neither." They'd rather punish themselves than give in to the offer. It's a behavior I somewhat understand, but rarely apply to myself, especially when the economics vpalmer just used make complete sense.

I'll give you 10 apples and 10 oranges for $30

But I only want apples!

Apples only will cost you $30

Well that's what I want! How dare you offer me more for the same price.

All being said, this may become a moot point anyway. As plenty of others have pointed out, we might be entering the era of single table packs. What will be your response if they cost the same as the 2 table packs did? And will that negate your argument regarding previous packs, where people are encouraging you to look at the 'b' table as a free bonus? Because as a console owner, I never had the choice of not buying both tables, so looking at the second table as a bonus has truly been a normal way of thinking to me.

 

[DrainoBraino]

Sheesh, everyone getting so worked up lately.

Here's how I feel, in video form. (I am Christopher Lloyd, and the mods are Jack Nicholson)

THIS CONTAINS BAD WORDS so NSFW:

 

[Lord Boron]

This tired old argument again.....

 

[vpalmer]

and one more thing i would like to say about this theme: if someone calling himself "pinhead", "pinball fan" and so on, and 5$ payment per month for his favourite hobby is a problem of some kind, then i guess he must find a root and solution of it not on Farsight's side.

 

[Bowflex]

For some people, it's the principle of the matter. "I only like this one table, you want me to buy both, so I'll show you and buy neither." They'd rather punish themselves than give in to the offer. It's a behavior I somewhat understand, but rarely apply to myself, especially when the economics vpalmer just used make complete sense.

I'll give you 10 apples and 10 oranges for $30

But I only want apples!

Apples only will cost you $30

Well that's what I want! How dare you offer me more for the same price.

All being said, this may become a moot point anyway. As plenty of others have pointed out, we might be entering the era of single table packs. What will be your response if they cost the same as the 2 table packs did? And will that negate your argument regarding previous packs, where people are encouraging you to look at the 'b' table as a free bonus? Because as a console owner, I never had the choice of not buying both tables, so looking at the second table as a bonus has truly been a normal way of thinking to me.

I agree that this does take place. For me, there are many things in the real world I refuse to buy due to this, usually caused by duplicity (like albums or movies re-released with one new song or 3 minutes of bonus footage) or uselessness (got a package of hockey tickets that included a game I won't attend, but I don't care because for the price I got 2 games I really want to see and the game I don't want was at a minimal cost to me but that could have gone entirely different if the price of the 3rd game was higher).

On the other hand, THIS IS PINBALL!!! I don't know about every single buyer but I am a lover of pinball and will gladly buy every pack, even when there is a table I dislike. Duplicity? I already have the Wii and X360 PHOF collections. I was and am happy to purchase updated tables on not one but multiple platforms with TPA. I buy packs with tables I don't care for! I even bought a pack that had Harley Davidson in it! Harely Davidson may be useless to me but I even fire it up every once in a blue moon.

 

[superballs]

I have a feeling that if we start seeing single table packs they are going to be the exact same as the tables we currently get.
Bugs, art issues, all that, I mean look at the Kickstarter packs, they have their issues just like the double packs.

The same people demanding single table packs, I'm guessing will rant about them.

Time will tell, I should bookmark this post just in case.

 

[Bowflex]

I have a feeling that if we start seeing single table packs they are going to be the exact same as the tables we currently get.
Bugs, art issues, all that, I mean look at the Kickstarter packs, they have their issues just like the double packs.

The same people demanding single table packs, I'm guessing will rant about them.

Time will tell, I should bookmark this post just in case.

Definitely. Bugs will happen. Unless you are a huge company that can dedicate lots of time and resources, they will occur. Luckily they can be very easily fixed for most platforms. Same with art issues and all. It takes a broader audience to realize that an error was even made in some cases. Whether you release 1 or 100 tables, there will be issues. Regardless, there wil be a vocal contingent insisting Farsight take a month or two off to fix these problems. If that ever did occur, you'd have the same people ranting no new product exists either. Just a bunch of catch-22's for any future course of business for Farsight at this point.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Unless you are a huge company that can dedicate lots of time and resources, they will occur.

They're not immune. Exhibit A: Bethesda Softworks, the company responsible for the both legendary and legendarily-buggy games Oblivion and Skyrim.

 

[SilverBalls]

I often like the 'crappy' b-side tables better than the a-sides and am often buying the pack for the b-side table. However I wouldn't want to deprive the lovers of the commercial a-side tables, and I am more than happy to help subsidise the heavy licences demanded by the a-sides, as long as I can pay my crappy b-side table.

 

[VanceFox]

FarSight is not going to sell table individually (except for the Kickstarter tables, and I completely understand that one). The reason comes down to economics. They would, most likely, lose money if they did this. Allow me to demonstrate.

First off, let me say the following is proof of CONCEPT, not proof of reality. I do not have the time and energy to do market research, customer surveys, etc. to get the actual numbers to illustrate my point. I am using what I feel are fair example numbers to demonstrate the concept.

Second, we need to assume the following, which I feel is accurate. The price of a (non-Kickstarter) table pack is $5 for 2 tables. I believe the people arguing for individual sales are asking for $2.50 for one table. I can't imagine they would argue for $5 for 1 table as that would double the price of a full pack. The underlying premise of buying single tables is to save money not buying the stuff you don't want.

Okay, let's now play with the Devil's magic... math! (That was a math joke, please don't get upset.)

Let's pretend there are 1000 customers for TPA. When a new table pack comes out, there will always be a percentage of people that won't buy it because they don't like one (or both) of the tables. What percentage is that? I'm going to imagine we're talking about table pack #16 which included Flight 2000 and what may be the most maligned table in all of TPA... Goin' Nuts. Let's say because GN is so bad, 25% of the 1000 customers don't buy the pack. That means 250 customers don't buy and 750 do buy for $5 apiece.
TOTAL REVENUE? ((250*$0)+(750*$5))=$3,750
Not a bad haul for a pool of 1000 customers.

Now, let's pretend the same 1000 customers have the option of buying two tables for $5, or one of the tables for $2.50, or no tables for $0. Here is where the numbers get speculative, but remember, I'm showing proof of concept, not proof of reality. So, using the same table pack, and assuming the 1000 people are all fans of TPA, there will be very few people buying nothing, so... 10%? So, what's the percentage of people buying Goin' Nuts versus not? Let's split it down the middle. GN seems to be hated by most people on these forums (with few exceptions). So let's say 45% of people only bought Flight 2000 and 45% bought both (and %10 buying neither). Time for some math again.
TOTAL REVENUE? ((100*$0)+(450*$2.50)+(450*$5))=$3,375
FarSight has now lost $375.

Just to repeat (for the third time), proof of concept. I'm sure FarSight has done the math with real numbers and real figures. I just took what I considered to be fair percentages, but even that is up for debate. The simple fact is that selling two for $5 is better than selling one for $2.50. Speaking for myself only, had I been given the chance to buy Goin' Nuts for $2.50... I wouldn't have bought it... along with Central Park and Big Shot and a few others (I'm not a fan of the older games).

So, to summarize... FarSight, please KEEP selling two tables at the same time!

 

[9u1d0]

Yes, please stop selling me two, please start selling me five new tables every month

 

[DornoDios]

C'mon now, Goin Nuts is not all bad! It can even be pretty exciting if you get all jacked up on caffeine and you turn the sound up really really loud.

On topic, I think 2-table packs are fine and seriously doubt they will ever change it. Often times you will grow to like the 'bad' table over time anyway. Except for El Dorado, it will continue to stink until they fix the horrendous bloom on the bumpers and the overly bright plastics. They could make it a little harder while they are at it as well.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Definitely. Bugs will happen. Unless you are a huge company that can dedicate lots of time and resources, they will occur. Luckily they can be very easily fixed for most platforms. Same with art issues and all. It takes a broader audience to realize that an error was even made in some cases. Whether you release 1 or 100 tables, there will be issues. Regardless, there wil be a vocal contingent insisting Farsight take a month or two off to fix these problems. If that ever did occur, you'd have the same people ranting no new product exists either. Just a bunch of catch-22's for any future course of business for Farsight at this point.

They're not immune. Exhibit A: Bethesda Softworks, the company responsible for the both legendary and legendarily-buggy games Oblivion and Skyrim.

...And both COD Ghosts and BF4 are buggy as hell.

 

[wolfson]

please sell me 10 in a pack !!! what a mob of bludgers, over a lousy $ 7.65 au.where can you go for $ 7.65. the recent soccer match between aust and costa rica was about $ 30 .movies about $ 16.what are the prices on your football tickets in Europe. compare that to what you pay for a tpa 2 pack.you are paying next to nothing for tpa.and I have every table of tpa and zen pinball on 4 platforms. and soon it will be 2 more platforms, I have xbox 1 and ps4 is coming. stop complaining,there are a lot of us that grew up with these old machines, maybe we appreciate them more than some folks do. here`s another thought , go to a pinnie parlor spend the day there and see how much money you spend. I`m sure it`ll be more than $ 7.65 !!!

 

[Jeff Strong]

I paid more for one drink today than I pay for one table pack...and that's not even including the price of dinner!

 

[wolfson]

good onya Jeff I forgot about the prices of food at sporting events, about $ 8 for a beer $6 for a maggot bag and a bit of dead horse on it. $ 5 for a cup a chips.

 

[jkonami]

$6 for a maggot bag and a bit of dead horse on it

What the hell are you guys eating down in Straya??? Come to the USA and I'll buy you a burger, I am at least 15% sure it's not made from horse.