The Humble Weekly Sale: Zen Studios

[superballs]

Too bad they're so piss poor about writing instructions though! Seriously, the table guides are about as useful as what you see for instructions on an actual table.

They aren't as detailed as TPA's table instructions but they cover the rules and modes fine.

In general they tell you what ramp/target/loop to shoot for, where TPA uses a lot of redundancy (and green arrows) to explain each feature, along with the exact scoring for each target.

In Zen's defense, though, there is the option to have every single score pop up when a target is hit, maybe a bit distracting and not realistic mind you, but I find the fun in Zen is that it's not realistic but still allows for suspension of disbelief.

 

[Sumez]

Yeah, the points that show up when you make a shot is a great form of feedback, that TPA would also benefit from (although it would be difficult/impossible to implement properly due to emulation)

 

[shutyertrap]

They aren't as detailed as TPA's table instructions but they cover the rules and modes fine.

In general they tell you what ramp/target/loop to shoot for, where TPA uses a lot of redundancy (and green arrows) to explain each feature, along with the exact scoring for each target.

In Zen's defense, though, there is the option to have every single score pop up when a target is hit, maybe a bit distracting and not realistic mind you, but I find the fun in Zen is that it's not realistic but still allows for suspension of disbelief.

I always play with the scores popping up, as I love that feature.

As for the rules...

I was just playing Paranormal quite extensively. No where in the rules did it tell of hitting the Nessie ramp twice to score big, the point options of the mansion backglass, all the different modes of the rotating cube and the different multiball options with each face. Like I said, the rule instructions are about as deep as what you'd find on an actual table. Enough to get by, hardly enough to understand all facets of the thing. It's one area I feel FarSight does it right, redundancies and all.

 

[Ark Malmeida]

I always play with the scores popping up, as I love that feature.

As for the rules...

I was just playing Paranormal quite extensively. No where in the rules did it tell of hitting the Nessie ramp twice to score big, the point options of the mansion backglass, all the different modes of the rotating cube and the different multiball options with each face. Like I said, the rule instructions are about as deep as what you'd find on an actual table. Enough to get by, hardly enough to understand all facets of the thing. It's one area I feel FarSight does it right, redundancies and all.

Agreed. Plus the problem I've always found with Zen's instructions is that they'll call out locations on the table when describing modes and assume that you know where that location actually is. Usually I can figure it out, but there are some cases where I'm stumped as to the actual location that they're actually referring to.

 

[Sumez]

The redundancies in FarSight's instructions seem to be due to the fact that they want the instructions to work as a reference manual, where you can look up any single part and get all the details they need, which I think is admirable.
That's a problem to anyone who wants to read through all the rules from start to end, though. I did that with all the tables on Williams PHOF, but on TPA the rules are usually 5 times as long due to all the redundancy, and there's no way I'd have the patience to read through all the same details over and over again.

 

[SpiffyRob]

I think the best way to approach TPA's rules is to start by getting all the Standard and Wizard goals, and using the targeted instruction segments as needed to check those off. Once those are done, you can reference the rules for any part of the table that wasn't covered by those rules.

This doesn't work perfectly for tables where the goal is to reach a particular score, but those tend to be the simpler games with shorter instructions, so it's less of an issue.

But yeah... definitely wish the Zen instructions were that thorough.

 

[Espy]

I think the best way to approach TPA's rules is to start by getting all the Standard and Wizard goals, and using the targeted instruction segments as needed to check those off. Once those are done, you can reference the rules for any part of the table that wasn't covered by those rules.

This doesn't work perfectly for tables where the goal is to reach a particular score, but those tend to be the simpler games with shorter instructions, so it's less of an issue.

But yeah... definitely wish the Zen instructions were that thorough.

Zen do actually host in depth PDF guides to their table. Not sure if they're made by a fan or a staff member, but they certainly do the job. Only thing is they don't come out the same time as the table, you can see the most recent SW tables don't have guides yet.

http://blog.zenstudios.com/?page_id=637

 

[Fungi]

http://blog.zenstudios.com/?page_id=637

Bookmarked! Thanks.

 

[shutyertrap]

Bookmarked the link too. Thanks Espy.

So what's the deal with Agent, Buccaneer, Extreme, Nightmare Mansion, Rocky & Bullwinkle, and Speed Machine? Do they suck and that's why they haven't been released? I've only ever played on PS3 and now PC, so these are new to me. I know for me, tables like Street Fighter and Ninja Gaiden are absolutely horrific for me to look at, and some of these listed look similarly blah.

 

[Espy]

Bookmarked the link too. Thanks Espy.

So what's the deal with Agent, Buccaneer, Extreme, Nightmare Mansion, Rocky & Bullwinkle, and Speed Machine? Do they suck and that's why they haven't been released? I've only ever played on PS3 and now PC, so these are new to me. I know for me, tables like Street Fighter and Ninja Gaiden are absolutely horrific for me to look at, and some of these listed look similarly blah.

The earliest ones (from the original PFX) are quite bland. They were Zen's first attempt at pinball (bar Flipper Critters - look it up if you want a laugh. Humble origins!) They rip off real table designs and have very generic themes. For example, Extreme is a rip off of BK2K and Speed Machine rips off WH2O. There aren't really any call-outs either, so it's just BGM the whole way (which I think doesn't change - just one track for the whole table). Rules are shallow and unrewarding, too. They're not all bad (I like batting the ball around Nightmare Mansion every so often), but nothing compared to their current tables.

You're not missing much. Zen once referred to them in an interview as a "black mark" on their history, if I remember correctly. These tables aren't on PS3 either. Neither is the PFX2 core pack, which IS a shame because they are good. I need to borrow my brother's 360 to play them.

 

[Fungi]

Bookmarked the link too. Thanks Espy.

So what's the deal with Agent, Buccaneer, Extreme, Nightmare Mansion, Rocky & Bullwinkle, and Speed Machine? Do they suck and that's why they haven't been released? I've only ever played on PS3 and now PC, so these are new to me. I know for me, tables like Street Fighter and Ninja Gaiden are absolutely horrific for me to look at, and some of these listed look similarly blah.

I'll give you my opinion SYT.

Agent is like The Web, or STTNG, but not as good.
Buccaneer is like Whirlwind, and surprisingly boring.
Extreme is like Bk2k, but not fun.
Nightmare Mansion is quite original, but not fun.
Rocky & Bullwinkle is their version of Sorcerer, and is actually ok.
Speed Machine is also unique, but not in quality.
Street Fighter is just not good.
Ninja Gaiden is so original, I still can't figure out the rules.

 

[Espy]

I'll give you my opinion SYT.

Agent is like The Web, or STTNG, but not as good.
Buccaneer is like Whirlwind, and surprisingly boring.
Extreme is like Bk2k, but not fun.
Nightmare Mansion is quite original, but not fun.
Rocky & Bullwinkle is their version of Sorcerer, and is actually ok.
Speed Machine is also unique, but not in quality.
Street Fighter is just not good.
Ninja Gaiden is so original, I still can't figure out the rules.

Speed Machine is actually a big WH2O rip-off. To quote my last post (so it's not a victim of the last post on the page syndrome):

The earliest ones (from the original PFX) are quite bland. They were Zen's first attempt at pinball (bar Flipper Critters - look it up if you want a laugh. Humble origins!) They rip off real table designs and have very generic themes. For example, Extreme is a rip off of BK2K and Speed Machine rips off WH2O. There aren't really any call-outs either, so it's just BGM the whole way (which I think doesn't change - just one track for the whole table). Rules are shallow and unrewarding, too. They're not all bad (I like batting the ball around Nightmare Mansion every so often), but nothing compared to their current tables.

You're not missing much. Zen once referred to them in an interview as a "black mark" on their history, if I remember correctly. These tables aren't on PS3 either. Neither is the PFX2 core pack, which IS a shame because they are good. I need to borrow my brother's 360 to play them.

Weirdest thing happened to me when playing Ninja Gaiden once. I can rarely get more than 10M on it, but in a single game, I seemed to activate this wizard mode of some sort within about two minutes of play that was getting me 30M per shot. Completely trounced all my friends's scores (if you have me added on PS3, go ahead and look!) "What was that?" I thought, so I looked up the table guide, nothing in the game, nothing in the PDF. No mention of it at all. Checked on the forums, never mentioned. Posted on their FB page, no-one could give me a proper answer. I think I discovered some uber-secret on that table. Really bizarre that there's a mode in the table that's so obscure that Zen have never acknowledged it, and has seemingly never been mentioned before anywhere...

 

[shutyertrap]

Thanks for the little reviews guys! I shall cease to think of them any more.

I wonder why Plants Vs Zombies has yet to appear. When I played the demo on PS3, I found the layout cluttered and confusing. Then I played it at a friend's house who had a 3D TV. Holy crap, what a difference! Suddenly I was enjoying it and was really able to see where shots should go. I tried out a few other tables that I had issues with, and it improved every single one of them...except Ninja Gaiden. That's when I knew that nothing could help that table!

 

[Espy]

Thanks for the little reviews guys! I shall cease to think of them any more.

I wonder why Plants Vs Zombies has yet to appear. When I played the demo on PS3, I found the layout cluttered and confusing. Then I played it at a friend's house who had a 3D TV. Holy crap, what a difference! Suddenly I was enjoying it and was really able to see where shots should go. I tried out a few other tables that I had issues with, and it improved every single one of them...except Ninja Gaiden. That's when I knew that nothing could help that table!

I do like Street Fighter, come to think of it. It's simple but fun. Also worth mentioning that Extreme is a good contender with Ninja Gaiden for Zen's hardest table... if you are a glutton for punishment. I spent hours simply trying to get 10 million on that table.

I like the way that the PvZ table actually feels like a game of PvZ controlled by a ball. You can collect the sundrops to buy things, create an army of plants etc. I have never played PvZ, and haven't played the pinball table in a while, but I know the basics.

 

[Fungi]

Speed Machine is actually a big WH2O rip-off.

Yeah, I guess. I couldn't tell since WH2O is so much fun and Speed Machine is so not.

 

[jkonami]

There's a steam sale happening now, PBFX2 tables are 50% off. Thinking about rounding out the Marvel tables. TPA doesn't seem to be participating. Maybe they will for the Xmas sale, who knows?

 

[jkonami]

Should I get the Vengeance and Virtue pack (Thor, Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, X-men) for $4.99 or get Captain America, Fantastic Four, and Civil War for $1.49 each? Civil War probably interests me the most but I plan to get all of them eventually. Not terribly interested in Star Wars or Ms. Splosion Man.

 

[Fungi]

Fantastic Four is my favorite. And I'm not generally a Zen fan. In fact, I would call Fantastic Four um... er... I can't think of an adjective right now.

 

[jkonami]

Fantastic Four is my favorite. And I'm not generally a Zen fan. In fact, I would call Fantastic Four um... er... I can't think of an adjective right now.

I didn't think I was either but I did a complete 180 pretty much. I bought the bundle thinking, eh, why not, at worst it's more pinball, how bad is that? Ended up really liking a couple of the tables so it was a pleasant surprise. I'm more prone to buy the pack since its more tables at a slightly higher discount. I suspect the X-men table will be decent. As for FF adjectives... How about... Fa.. bulous?

 

[shutyertrap]

9 tables for a little under $13. But I just got 22 tables for $6!!

Wonder why Ms Splosion Man isn't discounted. Maybe like Star Wars, just too new?

I know I'm gonna hem and haw about buying the remaining tables, waiting until the last minute on the 3rd to get 'em anyway. Fantastic 4 is the only one I haven't played at all.