TZ Post Tuning Difficulty

EldarOfSuburbia

New member
Feb 8, 2014
4,032
0
Is it just me, or is TZ now almost too difficult since it received its tuning pass? I mean, I get it, it was very easy and got boring fast before. It isn't know, it's a deadly trap and that left outlane is voracious.

But... failing at ~90% of clean shots on the left ramp from the left flipper? Not being able to make a running shot up the right ramp from the left flipper - essentially making the GUM-BALL combo impossible and cutting off 3-way and 4-way combos (there's no way you can nudge-trap on the left flipper, not with the ultra-shallow flipper angle)? Those are things that, on a real TZ, are bread-and-butter shots. They should be in this version.

The table slope could do with adjusting down a touch, and I still think the tuning tweaks would hold good and the table would be more difficult.

There's also the pipe dream of truly randomizing kickouts (I'm looking at you, Slot Machine kickout railroad) - how about it? There's also a very reliable left flipper->post between Slot Machine and Right Spiral->left outlane railroad.
 

Pinballwiz45b

Active member
Aug 12, 2012
3,638
1
Is it just me, or is TZ now almost too difficult since it received its tuning pass? I mean, I get it, it was very easy and got boring fast before. It isn't know, it's a deadly trap and that left outlane is voracious.

But... failing at ~90% of clean shots on the left ramp from the left flipper? Not being able to make a running shot up the right ramp from the left flipper - essentially making the GUM-BALL combo impossible and cutting off 3-way and 4-way combos (there's no way you can nudge-trap on the left flipper, not with the ultra-shallow flipper angle)? Those are things that, on a real TZ, are bread-and-butter shots. They should be in this version.

The table slope could do with adjusting down a touch, and I still think the tuning tweaks would hold good and the table would be more difficult.

There's also the pipe dream of truly randomizing kickouts (I'm looking at you, Slot Machine kickout railroad) - how about it? There's also a very reliable left flipper->post between Slot Machine and Right Spiral->left outlane railroad.

They did mention that the table is still a work in progress, so things are still subject to change.
 

FlippyFloppy

FarSight Employee
Nov 13, 2013
2,629
0
Is it just me, or is TZ now almost too difficult since it received its tuning pass? I mean, I get it, it was very easy and got boring fast before. It isn't know, it's a deadly trap and that left outlane is voracious.

But... failing at ~90% of clean shots on the left ramp from the left flipper? Not being able to make a running shot up the right ramp from the left flipper - essentially making the GUM-BALL combo impossible and cutting off 3-way and 4-way combos (there's no way you can nudge-trap on the left flipper, not with the ultra-shallow flipper angle)? Those are things that, on a real TZ, are bread-and-butter shots. They should be in this version.

The table slope could do with adjusting down a touch, and I still think the tuning tweaks would hold good and the table would be more difficult.

There's also the pipe dream of truly randomizing kickouts (I'm looking at you, Slot Machine kickout railroad) - how about it? There's also a very reliable left flipper->post between Slot Machine and Right Spiral->left outlane railroad.

I'll take a look into it. I don't believe TZ was finished being tuned since some collision issues were not addressed.
 

Zaphod77

Active member
Feb 14, 2013
1,309
1
a running shot on the left ramp from the left flipper should not be an easy hot. but it should be easy from a trap.

On a brand new properly aligned TZ, both ramps are possible to shoot from a trap on the SAME side as the ramp. A running shot at a ramp on the same side is a MUCH riskier proposition, bu tthe one acros the field to the opposite ramp is doable.

The gumball combo shouldn't be THAT hard to get.

i felt the ramps were fine before. it's just the ultra friendly slot kickout that makes the game so easy. and perhaps the player piano is a wee bit too easy?

Suggest the following adjustments.
1) slight randomization of angle and kickout strength from shot machine. only a live catch properly performed should be 100% reliable
2) slight randomization of rebound angle off of clock target and all other standups. This alone should put a lot of fear back into the table.
 

switch3flip

New member
Jan 30, 2013
944
0
How bout the creature left ramp during multiball? It was an easy joke before but now it's ridiculously hard and not worth shooting at all. I usually play a very men creature irl but it's still much easier to hit that ramp.
Also these new tuned tables should have their owm leaderboard. Or delete the old one, whatever. You could have almost marketed this a a new free table with a new leaderboard and ****, farsight. Go give your marketing guy a wedgie, he needs a wake up call.
 

Zaphod77

Active member
Feb 14, 2013
1,309
1
It is my feeling that it should get a few more spins in the whirlpool if its' that hard to get the ball up the ramp.
 

Pinballwiz45b

Active member
Aug 12, 2012
3,638
1
It is my feeling that it should get a few more spins in the whirlpool if its' that hard to get the ball up the ramp.

I think that a left ramp shot during multiball should be make-able from a trap on the right flipper. I've seen Bowen do it on the real thing in his tutorial and he makes it seem like a piece of cake, given the difficulty of the shot.

The whirlpool should give an extra spin, too, as well as more controllable catches as soon as the ball drops to the inlane.
 

taterfu

New member
Jul 14, 2017
4
0
I'll take a look into it. I don't believe TZ was finished being tuned since some collision issues were not addressed.

Anything ever come of this? TZ has been left like this for over 6 months now. Used to be my favorite game, but now it is borderline unplayable. I noticed today that the Powerball is barely affected when hit by the upper right flipper. I'm curious why FarSight changed the game so dramatically and not for the better!
 

Spork98765

New member
Jul 3, 2015
363
0
TZ is still being worked on, slowly as it goes, sadly.

There is a difference between "being worked on" and "being left in an unfinished state"

Being worked on means there is work to be done, whereas the latter suggests it has been abandoned, From the end users perspective if the table was uploaded in an incomplete state of tuning and hasn't been updated to the previous tuning state nor complete in 6 months it is for all intents abandoned.

This issue could have been solved in a previous patch at any time, but FS keeps no notes, doesn't release change logs and doesn't keep track of regression bugs as has been complained about oh so many times.

Yes, Yes -- blah blah this is about to become a trope - they are a small company with few employees so we need to be patient -- no! they released a broken product, again, and haven't revised it in a timely fashion.

This is part of the way they continue to alienate and lose customer trust @Mike Lindsey @FlippyFloppy
 

switch3flip

New member
Jan 30, 2013
944
0
Ah it's only the all time no:1 player rated pin on ipdb no one cares right :rolleyes:

But if any table needed a tune up it's definitely TZ, so it's awesome that it's in the pipeline, just don't understand why it got updated half finished.
 
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FlippyFloppy

FarSight Employee
Nov 13, 2013
2,629
0
Ah it's only the all time no:1 player rated pin on ipdb no one cares right :rolleyes:

But if any table needed a tune up it's definitely TZ, so it's awesome that it's in the pipeline, just don't understand why it got updated half finished.

That was most likely my fault, I was working on the table and submitted my changes so some collisions could be fixed. We'll have an update in the next release with a tuning pass, collision fixes and DX11 lighting pass.

Sorry about that!
 

switch3flip

New member
Jan 30, 2013
944
0
That was most likely my fault, I was working on the table and submitted my changes so some collisions could be fixed. We'll have an update in the next release with a tuning pass, collision fixes and DX11 lighting pass.

Sorry about that!

Sounds awesome, looking forward!!
 

taterfu

New member
Jul 14, 2017
4
0
That was most likely my fault, I was working on the table and submitted my changes so some collisions could be fixed. We'll have an update in the next release with a tuning pass, collision fixes and DX11 lighting pass.

Sorry about that!

I'M HOLDING MY BREATH!!! Thanks for replying, FlippyFlop!
 

Striker

New member
May 26, 2017
138
0
Ah it's only the all time no:1 player rated pin on ipdb no one cares right :rolleyes:

But if any table needed a tune up it's definitely TZ, so it's awesome that it's in the pipeline, just don't understand why it got updated half finished.

Hope the tune up helps. I never played TZ until I discovered TPA last year. I knew of its reputation and looked forward to playing, but found it insanely difficult. I gave up thinking I must be missing a secret trick to playing a halfway-decent game. :p
 

Annorax

New member
Feb 2, 2013
80
0
I'm finding this tuning pass to be almost unplayable, for reasons noted above. Can't make any shots, and it seems that balls are unnaturally picking up speed now. Before, I was able to get to 200 billion with no issues (at least, until the cats found the iPad and unplugged it overnight, so it'd shut down and lose the game), but now, even getting to a replay/EB is nearly impossible. Is there any way some of these changes can be reverted?
 

Pinballwiz45b

Active member
Aug 12, 2012
3,638
1
I'm finding this tuning pass to be almost unplayable, for reasons noted above. Can't make any shots, and it seems that balls are unnaturally picking up speed now. Before, I was able to get to 200 billion with no issues (at least, until the cats found the iPad and unplugged it overnight, so it'd shut down and lose the game), but now, even getting to a replay/EB is nearly impossible. Is there any way some of these changes can be reverted?

Platform? Sounds like you still might have a build before further improvements were implemented and are included in the present.
 

Annorax

New member
Feb 2, 2013
80
0
iOS 10.3.3, iPad 4 (32-bit processor, can't upgrade to iOS 11). I'm also getting tons of hitching, but only on TZ, not other tables.
 

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