What separates the best players here from the rest?

[Tarek Oberdieck]

To be honest, first: have no life.

This isn't true. I have a full-time day job, and travel somewhere most weekends (why I haven't joined in the TotM for forever). But I can still make time for long games of TPA when I want.

I've thought about to write an equal comment. It's not necessary to get such a lot #1 scores in only one half year with a playing time from more than twelve hours every day as Dizzer2012 has done. Not surprising that there's no time for life. I've got my scores over nearly two years. And for sure some people even think that's too much time for a game...

 

[vikingerik]

Thus, I have to ask...is there something I'm missing? ... Even with tilt as forgiving as Pinball Arcade's, it amazes me how Miwurdz and Pinballwiz45b can carry on these games so long, shooting so precisely for what seems like hours. ... How do you guys do it?

The short answer is, yes, we just play longer. We don't have any miracle methods to score a billion while you score 250M. We just drain less and get more extra balls, until the latter exceeds the former, and then the game lasts infinitely long. We do the same things you do, just for longer.

It's really more about managing risk than accurate shooting. Dizzer is less accurate than I am but avoids drains better.

And it really is about the strategy to always chase extra balls to extend your game, as a higher priority than actually scoring. It's not intuitive at first, but there is an increasing-returns effect as you earn more extra balls per ball. Let's use Twilight Zone as an example, where every 15 door panels yields an extra ball. Let's ignore any EBs other than from the door panel. Let's use the total number of door panels to measure score, assuming they're proportional. (All of the following works for Scared Stiff's spider spins as well, but that's a little more complicated since there are two EBs per cycle and you can miss a spider spin. TZ is the simpler example.)

If you get 6 door panels per ball, you'll have one EB in the game (4 total), meaning 7*4 = 24 panels total.

If you get 8 door panels per ball, you'll have two EBs in the game (5 total), 5*8 = 40 panels total.

If you get 10 door panels per ball, you'll have four EBs in the game (7 total), 7*10 = 70 panels total.

If you get 12 door panels per ball, you'll have eight EBs in the game (11 total), 12*11 = 132 panels total. Look at what the math is doing: merely doubling your accuracy (or halving your drains) from 6 to 12 skyrockets the game length and score by 5x.

If you get 14 door panels per ball, you'll have twenty-eight EBs in the game (31 total). That sound crazy? Double-check the math. 31 balls * 14 panels/ball = 434 panels. 434/15 = 28 extra balls, that checks out. Just another small increase in efficiency tripled the game length and score again!

And of course, 15 door panels per ball earns back an EB on every ball and goes infinite.

That is where the highly leveraged margin of the top players comes from. Every EB you earn will itself earn a fraction of another EB. Then that EB earns more, and so on. There are drastic increasing returns as that fraction approaches 1.0. We get our returns by disciplinedly avoiding risk and drains in order to push the EB:drain ratio ever closer to that critical infinite 1:1.

 

[steven120566]

This isn't true. I have a full-time day job, and travel somewhere most weekends (why I haven't joined in the TotM for forever). But I can still make time for long games of TPA when I want.



This also isn't true, broadly speaking. There's only maybe ten players here that routinely go infinite on tables. The vast majority of the leaderboard is still based on skill. And only some tables allow infinitely long games anyway. There are quite a few like AFM, Whirlwind, Ripley's, Cactus Canyon where extra balls are limited and it's always still a real competition.

I agree all the way. I am not even medoicre, and play for the same experience as trackball. I respect the ability to achieve these scores in whatever form the players have said ability. These folks are skilled. Period. I respect what they do, as I respect the best at anything else in life. then I do my own thing

 

[Slam23]

Great example [MENTION=3745]vikingerik[/MENTION], well explained.

In this discussion it's also noteworthy that although PC players are in a minority vs. tablet/mobile, they dominate the leaderboards, and to a lesser extent this goes for console as well. We had lengthy discussions about why this is the case, and aside from having some of the clearly superior skilled players on PC/console, it also has to do with the ability to micronudge with analog controls. Not everybody on PC and console uses this by the way, so it doesn't account for all variance, but on tablet/mobile it's not possible to distinguish between a hard nudge and a micronudge. The former will eventually or immediately lead to a tilt, while the latter gives a lot of ball control. Just google some youtube TPA videos from PC players and you see some of them micronudge constantly to keep the ball on the flippers.
Another crossplatform difference is input lag. The PC (and maybe console too?) has a vastly higher input sample rate, which translates in higher precision shooting. I hope I explain this correctly, otherwise VikingErik will probably jump in, because I learned this from him.
And sometimes physics differ a bit crossplatform, which may give that platform a more dependable physics railroad (repeatable result) or shot that is otherwise impossible to make. There are not a lot of these from what I gather, but on some tables they make a huge difference in scoring. I don't have an example to give at this moment, none come to mind.

This is not meant as a whine from an iOS user by the way , just stating some things that have an impact on scoring crossplatform. And why Toolinit is such a great player, being the top iOS man in the leaderboards and having a ridiculous amount of HOF points

 

[vikingerik]

it also has to do with the ability to micronudge with analog controls. Not everybody on PC and console uses this by the way

I don't. I play with a PC keyboard, which can only do full-strength nudges. But I think this is an advantage more often than not. I want the predictability and power of a full-strength nudge more often than I want the finer control of an analog nudge. There are only a few exceptions where I'd care about analog nudging, like the pegboard area on Pinbot/Jackbot.

But ultimately, your nudge control method isn't what makes the difference between top scores or not. Nobody's going to find a miracle with different nudge control.

Another crossplatform difference is input lag. The PC (and maybe console too?) has a vastly higher input sample rate, which translates in higher precision shooting. I hope I explain this correctly, otherwise VikingErik will probably jump in, because I learned this from him.

This isn't sample rate. TPA runs at 60 Hz on all platforms. What's different about input is a physical microswitch (keyboard or gamepad) versus a touchscreen. The latter isn't as accurate since capacitative sensing inherently requires a time component that can't be as precise as an instantly closed circuit. It's still possible for a player to have 1/60 accuracy on a touchscreen, but it takes a higher degree of difficulty than does a switch-based input method.

There's also plunger control to consider. The PC allows the finest method of that, by pulling back with a mouse. That's easier than with an analog thumbstick or trigger or touchscreen since you know a mouse can seek for and hold exactly the spot you want before releasing. This makes a significant difference on a few tables, most importantly TZ's super skill shot that I can hit very nearly 100%. Also helps a lot on Jack*bot (in Casino Run and in starting multiball; going for the skill shot is a bad idea otherwise.)

 

[Tarek Oberdieck]

We had lengthy discussions about why this is the case, and aside from having some of the clearly superior skilled players on PC/console, it also has to do with the ability to micronudge with analog controls.

I've played TPA with a simple PC keyboard until the beginning of the year. The nudging capabilities are limited with this interface. You can shake to prevent an outlane or middle drain, that's allmost everything. After reading some posts in this forum I've switched to a XBox360 Controller which has the ability to micronudge. After a few months I can say that this input device completely changes my gameplay. The main emphasis with a controller is the nudging, with the keyboard an accurate play. The latter is closer to a real machine in my opinion. From table to table I've switched from the controller back to the keyboard. Some of my latest scores are nearly impossible with the PC keyboard and without micronudging, for example 11M on El Dorado.

I would advocate it when Farsight revise the nudging in a stricter way.

 

[Slam23]

I tend to use micronudging a lot on a real machine (especially small pre-emptive nudges away from outlanes), but it doesn't come close in effect on ball control that can be achieved in TPA. I haven't seen anybody do things like that on a real machine, even the worldclass players who have a lot of tricks to control balls on the flippers. Then again, the more forceful nudges in TPA are too strong and too "directional" in effect in comparison with real machine nudging.

 

[Kratos3]

I think it's patience as much as anything. I put up a huge score on Scared Stiff on the Vita and eventually let it drain just to end it. It took all day and was boring as balls. Of course by the time I was done I wasn't connected to the server and my score didn't save to the leaderboard. Just one of the many awesome features of the Vita and TPA.....but I digress.

 

[ZREXMike]

Umm...they can play pinball better? (Just kidding!)

 

[Voof]

I've always contributed it to experience and desire. Experience doesn't need to come from pinball, there are many things that morph your thinking and perspective in this world. Sometimes those experiences help you into something, then desire pushes you over that point.

 

[Dizzer2012]

This isn't true. I have a full-time day job, and travel somewhere most weekends (why I haven't joined in the TotM for forever). But I can still make time for long games of TPA when I want.



This also isn't true, broadly speaking. There's only maybe ten players here that routinely go infinite on tables. The vast majority of the leaderboard is still based on skill. And only some tables allow infinitely long games anyway. There are quite a few like AFM, Whirlwind, Ripley's, Cactus Canyon where extra balls are limited and it's always still a real competition.

I don't want to act like i'm special or very good cause it would be the first game i would be really good at and at the top. So i go for what i said before... something like; not many people WANT to play for a couple of days just to get high on the leaderboard. What's pretty stupid anyway. It's not about a few tables, ALOT tables. DX11 is ok but DX9 is WAY too easy. And all the tables where it comes down to time, guess who got the first places there? Mr. Tarek. For me there's not much skill involved with pinball arcade. I proved i can be first and i don't consider myself very good, just a little above average like with most games. Again the answer is time, who wants to put the most hours in something that becomes very, veeeeery boring.

 

[Dizzer2012]

Dizzer is less accurate than I am but avoids drains better.

Excuse me? How did u come up with this?

 

[Dizzer2012]

I've thought about to write an equal comment. It's not necessary to get such a lot #1 scores in only one half year with a playing time from more than twelve hours every day as Dizzer2012 has done. Not surprising that there's no time for life. I've got my scores over nearly two years. And for sure some people even think that's too much time for a game...

It took u 2 years cause i wasn't there in the beginning. Or else u would have played even more then me because u want to be nr.1 no matter what. U know i'm right. And i got periods where i played very long, but not every day 12 hours. Make it around 6. And how would u know anyway how much hours i spend on it a day? Do i have a camera in my house, are you Big Brother? U know u don't have to look at my hours played in steam, because i leave the computer on for days and continue the next day so the hours in steam means nothing.

Btw; u turned your profile in steam to private very quickly after your first highscore in Zaccaria Pinball (because the nickname there is the same as your steam nickname), got something to hide? (I bet u did it because u don't want people to see how many hours u played pinball arcade, lol, if not what else is your reason for that?)

 

[Dizzer2012]

But ultimately, your nudge control method isn't what makes the difference between top scores or not. Nobody's going to find a miracle with different nudge control.

Very, very untrue. The nudging in pinball arcade makes all the difference. It's what makes it easy.

 

[DanBradford]

learn how to nudge without thinking about it. I slowly acquired that reflex by playing a LOT

The nudging in pinball arcade makes all the difference. It's what makes it easy.

I wish I could do it. I use iPad to play, and I reckon half my nudges improve things for me, the other half make things worse. Can someone teach me how to do it please?

 

[Tarek Oberdieck]

Btw; u turned your profile in steam to private very quickly after your first highscore in Zaccaria Pinball (because the nickname there is the same as your steam nickname), got something to hide? (I bet u did it because u don't want people to see how many hours u played pinball arcade, lol, if not what else is your reason for that?)

My Steam profile is set to privat since I own TPA. It was my first Steam game and I always try to configure software as privat as possible. Same goes e.g. for Windows 10. May thats not needed for steam, I can't overlook all steam features until now. My playtime isn't a secret, I've posted the hours a few month ago in another thread. At the moment 4561 hours and 202 from 219 achievements.

Very, very untrue. The nudging in pinball arcade makes all the difference. It's what makes it easy.

I would recommend you to play pro pinball timeshock ultra. That's a real skill game. It's not possible to control the ball with nudging like in TPA...

 

[Dizzer2012]

My Steam profile is set to privat since I own TPA. It was my first Steam game and I always try to configure software as privat as possible. Same goes e.g. for Windows 10. May thats not needed for steam, I can't overlook all steam features until now. My playtime isn't a secret, I've posted the hours a few month ago in another thread. At the moment 4561 hours and 202 from 219 achievements.

Holy .... that's almost 2.5 times as much as me.

I would recommend you to play pro pinball timeshock ultra. That's a real skill game. It's not possible to control the ball with nudging like in TPA...

I tried it, and it sucks. The nudging is all wrong in that game. When i want to nudge to the left it goes right and i can't change it even when i set everything good at control options. Besides that don't like it much. The only plus is it looks good but that's about it.

 

[Mark Miwurdz]

Pfft. Stream live on twitch and take away all doubt. Let's see that ball control and the occasional tilt.

 

[Mark Miwurdz]

I've always been sceptical of non-console players. Like they can get into the settings or code or something.

 

[relaxation]

I'm more interested in this 'differences in physics between DX11 and DX9'. Could you give us a prime example, something that's easy to perform and notice, on a table we could try [MENTION=5749]Dizzer2012[/MENTION]?

Tarek confirmed 'micro nudging' is something to not ignore, no reason to debate it. Sir Moovenstein seemed to pick it up quickly, has videos from 3 years ago showing him doing exactly that on the playstation platform and it doesn't make them the best at any table they play.
[MENTION=311]Mark Miwurdz[/MENTION] just because someone's on a live stage doesn't mean they can't lip sync, there's always a way to conceal things.

You could ask me to stream from a laptop&camcorder with a clock in the background to show my desktops boot process to make sure I wasn't in a virtual machine, google for todays forcast before I started playing in windowed mode to see my desktops clock and task bar and I could still think up ways to cheat.

unrelated.. I'm honestly curious how far AI can go in video games. If nvidia can teach a car whats what to hands-free drive, from what would take a majority of a year to a month.. I'm curious what something from 13 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L48Pmk3qoM could do today. I'd call Tarek an AI for that Dracula gameplay I saw, if AI were more prevalent. I wonder what it could teach us if we let it learn games and what would be the most successful way to do so.