timeframe on dx11

[Jeff Strong]

Jeff,i remember an old saying,calm before the storm,well here`s my hoping on a gut feeling.last table on pc no newsletter,i think XBOX1 and XBOX360 will be out November and then my mate ,they`ll do the lighting !!! by XMAS will be fantastic.you and I know how great it is on PS4 !!! HERE`S TO SOME HOPE !!!

I hope you're right!

 

[Shaneus]

We need an ETA on the One version, wasn't that what was holding back the PC version? What's the status of that?

Is it that different lighting techniques and plans need to be painted or whatever for each table, and doing them individually is taking time? I can't think of a reason we haven't seen anything on the One version given it's been out for a year and FS have said different people work on multiple things at the same time.

Some kind of an official word why, and an ETA that FS can be held to (or believed). Is that asking too much?

 

[subgenius]

I emailed support. I suggest you do the same. If they follow any kind of customer prioritized delivery system then they need the customer demand to prioritize it. If people buy all the tables regardless of the lighting they're not going to do it. So hold out your cash until they deliver. I bought some of my favorite tables but holding off on PC until they deliver. Like most people here I own lots of tables on multiple systems and my PC would be my system of choice so I'm holding off. I suggest you do the same and let farsight support know what you want and are willing to pay for, that will accelerate the timeline. Otherwise why would they develop something that doesn't change how much $ they are getting? They would be better off spending their time putting it on XBX1.

 

[Pete]

having done similar stuff building random maps for counter strike and quake 3 (although much older games) im pretty sure the process is still placing a light source ball on top of each light on the table and adjusting each light to be the proper color brightness and throw distance. and of course letting that light know to only be lit when it's supposed to be. honestly this should really be allot of copying and pasting and then adjusting the pasted light's setting to be how it should for the other light. Let me just say TPA is my favorite game ever, I love you guys for bringing this to us! And to the guy who says he could care less about new lighting... can you really blame us for wanting our favorite game to look really awesome? The lighting tech is going to be great and I really hope it isn't put off to the side too far. This really has taken way longer than originally promised and I think it's in part due to people having left farsight and new people having to catch up to where the old people were. At least that's how it seems with all the talk about "the engine guy left". I remember them saying the entire art department was working on it practically non stop while having to do new tables at the same time (that was back during season 2 when they had to pump out 2 a month). It's kind of discouraging to hear that the ps4 isn't even up with the new tables and is actually far behind. Even if the engine guy were to add dx11-12 support to PC today they probably don't have most the tables ready for it. Now that we have had almost a full year worth of 1 table a month releases and things are still drastically backed up it makes me wonder if they cut their staff rather than spreading them out better. My fear is that the rights for Twilight Zone and ST:TNG will run out before the lighting tech comes to PC. what were the time limits on those rights? I think I heard 4 years which are almost half up.

 

[superballs]

Am I the only one who doesn't care about DX11? Pinball is for playing pinball. I don't care how colorful the lighting effects are. Fix the buggy unplayable tables before you spend effort on making it shinier.

I don't care either. I'm not going to stop enjoying something over lighting. Yes I want it but I also want to play

I wouldn't say I don't care about DX11, but the lack of it is not stopping me from enjoying the tables.

+1

Seriously doubt whether DX11 or proper cab support will ever eventuate. I had high hopes but have given up now - no more money from me for FS. Only time I even fire up this program anymore is if I'm bored at work for 5 minutes and have my ipad close. It's not even installed on my cab anymore.

Visual Pinball is where it's at.

For those who don't care about lighting - am I correct in assuming you probably haven't played a great deal of real pinball? For me it makes a huge difference - 99% of the time I play it's at night in a dark room where the pinball GI is pretty much the only lighting I see.

wrong I play a lot and it is cool to have but hardly so important as to strip enjoyment.

I emailed support. I suggest you do the same. If they follow any kind of customer prioritized delivery system then they need the customer demand to prioritize it. If people buy all the tables regardless of the lighting they're not going to do it. So hold out your cash until they deliver. I bought some of my favorite tables but holding off on PC until they deliver. Like most people here I own lots of tables on multiple systems and my PC would be my system of choice so I'm holding off. I suggest you do the same and let farsight support know what you want and are willing to pay for, that will accelerate the timeline. Otherwise why would they develop something that doesn't change how much $ they are getting? They would be better off spending their time putting it on XBX1.

As a counter...if there is no market to cater to then it's not economically viable to put resources toward it. I think this is a silly thing to not buy the software over really

 

[kimkom]

As a counter...if there is no market to cater to then it's not economically viable to put resources toward it. I think this is a silly thing to not buy the software over really

Superballs, I don't think it's just the lack of DX11, it's the lack of progress and support all round.

As a PC player, I would like to at least see some progress on the things we were told were coming a long time ago. DX11 was imminent in January, emulation of some of the older tables was before that, a new UI was promised (there are issues with the current one at high resolutions), cabinet support, major bug fixes, and so on...

After a recent update, I now no longer have access to the T2 table I paid for (which I supported through it's Kickstarter). Mike suggested contacting FarSight support but after two weeks, I've still had no reply.

A lot of people (I am one) have been asking for better quality textures too. They may be fit for mobile but on a 21st century PC, I'm afraid they just don't cut it. Integration of portrait mode into the configuration utility should, in my opinion, also be a priority as having users fiddling around in the display drivers for this long isn't great.

If none of these issues 'matter' when playing digital pinball, we'd probably all still be playing Pinball Fantasies on the Amiga.

On a positive note, it's good that we have the option to purchase the latest tables every month. Personally speaking though, I really have no interest in any DLC tables until there is progress on the issues I've mentioned above.

Unfortunately, it all adds up to a lot of agitated supporters of TPA on PC. And people will vote with their wallets.

 

[JPelter]

Superballs, I don't think it's just the lack of DX11, it's the lack of progress and support all round.

As a PC player, I would like to at least see some progress on the things we were told were coming a long time ago. DX11 was imminent in January, emulation of some of the older tables was before that, a new UI was promised (there are issues with the current one at high resolutions), cabinet support, major bug fixes, and so on...

After a recent update, I now no longer have access to the T2 table I paid for (which I supported through it's Kickstarter). Mike suggested contacting FarSight support but after two weeks, I've still had no reply.

A lot of people (I am one) have been asking for better quality textures too. They may be fit for mobile but on a 21st century PC, I'm afraid they just don't cut it.

On a positive note, it's good that we have the option to purchase the latest tables every month. Personally speaking though, I really have no interest in any DLC tables until there is progress on the issues I've mentioned above.

Unfortunately, it all adds up to a lot of agitated supporters of TPA on PC. And people will vote with their wallets.

I've said this before but it always comes down to this: If you want to play good recreations of tables TPA is the only game in town. And when things work it's incredibly good. Someone might say what about VP and such; the thing is it's incredibly difficult for anyone who isn't really computer smart to set up, and (no offense to anyone) a vast majority of the tables have serious serious issues with them. Even the physics, while really good as things go aren't quite up to par with TPA from what I've seen. If I vote with my wallet I'll vote for Farsight. Things may move at a glacial pace but what we have is really pretty good, and things do progress eventually.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

It's pretty clear that FS are spread thin, staff-wise. Hiring new people - especially to a relatively out-of-the-way location as Big Bear - isn't the easiest thing to do. It's no longer a hiring market; employers are being picky about who they take on, employees are being picky about who they join. People who got jobs are not, by and large, moving on; the recession is too recent a memory. Turnover is more likely to be for personal/family reasons that getting a better offer from somewhere else.

Maybe FS need one or two additional resources to throw at upgrading the PC experience. Maybe they're actively trying to recruit, but having the same difficulties everyone else is in attracting the right talent.

In the meantime, they need to keep their revenue stream going, and their revenue stream is the monthly release of new tables on PC and mobile platforms.

The next priority would be to add new, big, revenue streams, and right now, that means XBox support, both current and previous gen. Add those and there's more cash to offer potential new employees.

Then there's opportunities that come out of the blue (Ghostbusters). Taking a flyer on that would've seemed logical, and anyway, it takes up Android and iOS resources who most likely aren't too involved with PC/console development.

Next is PS3/PS4/Vita, with the PS4 complicated by whatever deal they had to sign with Microsoft regarding XBoxOne functionality. PC users' issues are, as far as I can tell, first-world compared to some of the problems and delays with PS3/PS4/Vita.

Providing additional features for a platform that is already up and running, and already getting monthly content releases in a timely fashion, is going to come in last. Hello PC/iOS/Android.

 

[Crazy Newt]

Having played many more real pinball table games than virtual table games, I do appreciate lighting, and I am eagerly anticipating the PC DX11 implementation. That said, the lighting we currently have is not horrible (except maybe Genie...), and if there happened to be a lack of resources where a priority had to be made, I'd opt for fixing issues over the improvement in lighting. Though, as has already been mentioned, there should not be any conflict in this regard.

Sound is extremely important to the pinball experience. The original Zen Studio (Pinball FX) games just had some background theme music continually playing. Boring! The sounds and music should match what is happening on the table. Black Knight 2K with some country-strumming music happening in the background would make for a lousy experience. Though, I often play while listening to music, the experience is not the same, and I only listen to music now after I have played the table dozens of times and have heard everything I could hear many times over.

I'm more of a flow fan than anything else. I can just loop over and over again and be content with no lights or sound, though it is important, just not as important as flow. I'm happy to simply "ride the cyclone" and "ride the comet", ad nauseam, while jamming to The Flying Burrito Brothers.

 

[Kratos3]

I believe the new UI was delayed due to staff turnover.

 

[pm1109]

I believe the new UI was delayed due to staff turnover.

Whats the excuse now

 

[LiquidFreon]

Having played many more real pinball table games than virtual table games, I do appreciate lighting, and I am eagerly anticipating the PC DX11 implementation. That said, the lighting we currently have is not horrible (except maybe Genie...), and if there happened to be a lack of resources where a priority had to be made, I'd opt for fixing issues over the improvement in lighting.

I agree. Pinball isn't about lighting or sounds. As it stands removing scoring would be my next suggestion if cuts need to be made due to lack of resources. The pinball experience is about pressing down on the keys and watching the ball move to and fro. Kind of like a pendulum or my old cuckoo clock. My suggestion is to remake all the flippers so they touch each other while adding infinite kickbacks to the outer lanes. This will avoid draining of the ball and give us all the ability to just keep flipping. To quote one of the greatest minds in history, "That's where I saw the leprechaun. He told me to burn things."

 

[Crazy Newt]

I remember playing Gorgar at the arcade back in 1980 with AC/DC's "Highway to Hell" blaring over the sound system. The place was recently converted over from a failing disco, and they still had the fog machines working and flashing lights all over the place. So, my experiences may be different than others with regards to lights and sounds.

 

[mpad]

Pinball isn't about lighting and sounds .... la la la
Ok all you guys saying that should be perfectly happy with this then:

Seriously, TPA is trying to be a sim or a realistic recreation of some sorts.
So why not go for REALISTIC lighting. It has nothing to do with fancy effects like the current post processing bs. Just make it look real.
And they officially advertised it on steam as beeing done soon, one year ago.

 

[Alex Atkin UK]

I was disappointed with the PS4 version personally as the materials still don't look right. I would have thought with modern shaders they could do material simulation so it looks close to photo realistic.

So if it ends up just being a port of Xbox One lighting (which ultimately I expect to be just a PS4 port) it will be an improvement but still somewhat disappointing for something supposedly simulating real machines.

Even if for some reason the consoles cannot do that level of simulation, PC should be able to.

 

[Crazy Newt]

Pinball isn't about lighting and sounds .... la la la
Ok all you guys saying that should be perfectly happy with this then:

Seriously, TPA is trying to be a sim or a realistic recreation of some sorts.
So why not go for REALISTIC lighting. It has nothing to do with fancy effects like the current post processing bs. Just make it look real.
And they officially advertised it on steam as beeing done soon, one year ago.

Right, but there a lots of things about TPA that are not realistic. The lighting and sound are already pretty good. If I could have either ball spin and more accurate physics or DX11 lighting effects in an update tomorrow, I'd be more excited about the physics changes.

 

[Kratos3]

Whats the excuse now

The main guy who was doing it left.

 

[wolfson]

I don`t know what all the fuss is about.my pc is no1.all tables,my lighting and graphics are really good ,not as good as PS4.my pc is an ASUS GAMERi7 NVidia geforcegtx850m and intell hd4600 which is really good.i don`t worry when they come on PS3 or PS4 because I have them on pc.you guys and gals holding out on buying tables on pc because of lighting ,which will come, are missing out on some great tables.geez POTO,BSD,DINER,HRCASINO,great playing them!!!!

 

[Jeff Strong]

Superballs, I don't think it's just the lack of DX11, it's the lack of progress and support all round.

Exactly this. Honestly I'd rather have half as many tables if it meant we had more features and options. That's why I haven't bought anything since season 1 on PC, and it will stay that way as long as they just keep cranking out DLC alone. If I just want a boatload of tables, well I already have VP for that. However, things like multiplayer and improved graphics would definitely make TPA tables worth buying though. Until then, I have better things to spend my hard-earned money on.

 

[scendr]

I've said this before but it always comes down to this: If you want to play good recreations of tables TPA is the only game in town.

I think that's the problem. I wish there was competition from another company that had access to the same licenses for classic tables -- a company with a more narrow focus and more attention to fit and finish. If Farsight was forced to recognize the value of polish and presentation when it comes to popularizing a game, they might be able to turn PBA into something that breaks out of its niche in a much bigger way.

Of course a lot of people on this board are going to purchase every table. This is the core audience. For PBA to become popular beyond that audience, it needs to look and feel like a modern piece of software.