Details on PC Cabinet support for TPA

[chinzman93]

K heres a quick and dirty Mod back glass wallpaper to use when loading and in between tables.
IF someone knows how to make text look more like a real dmd (Gimp filter etc) I'd love some tips..but for now this is what i can do.

http://1drv.ms/1LYdXWy

and heres preview

Great job! I really appreciate the work that you and NOEX are doing on this. It shouldn't be necessary....but it is! Awesome!

 

[Robert Misner]

I think that dx11 , physics 3.0 , PC tournaments, and the new interface they previewed and said was coming in next couple months shows they are doing lots to help improve the product overall beside just pumping out new tables. I think they just wont' be able to provide everything they had hoped and wanted to..I want it all to, but I know from experience just cuz I can make something happen..and I want to make something happen, doesn't mean my boss will pay me to make it happen.
I still hope someday we'll get a floating scale able dmd similar to VP and PBFX2 but for now I think this is gonna work out well (no pressure NoEx LOL)

I still feel i get alotta value for 3.50 a table.

 

[chinzman93]

I think they've commented as much as they are willing/can. It's not being actively developed anymore for business reasons. Beyond that, I think you need to either work for them or have an NDA with them to get more. I do have an NDA, and they haven't told me anything more than what is known. They didn't even have their cab with them at Replay FX, when normally they were bringing it with them to expos.

I know it sucks for you cab folk, but you aren't share holders in FarSight stock and they don't need to divulge every business decision past you. Put your full support behind NoEx and his camera mod. Set your minds to the fact that you may never see true cab support. That way you can move on and either give up on TPA completely as some are saying, or accept the game for what it is. Hopes and wishes are not going to do you any good.

I totally agree with what you have said. I am sure that they can't or won't comment further on it. I will just go back to VP, which is why I built my cabinet 4 years ago. I just think this was a huge missed opportunity, primarily by Stern. The big problem with cabs has been the difficulty of setting up VP/VPinmame for an average user. I was hoping this had a chance for being a clean easy to install solution. Everyone seems to fixate on the low numbers of cab users (which is true), but seem to forget about the number of people those cabs get exposed to (poker nights, game nights...etc). No one builds a cab and does not show it off. Some of these people will have the disposable cash to buy a new Stern game. More importantly, it has a chance to expose young kids (like my nephews) and new players to the game. I have 2 real pins (older), my cabinet, a Mame arcade, and a poker table in my smallish game room. After cards, the cab gets the most play. I get the most comments from people that after playing on the cab, they actually go out and are playing on location. One even purchased a game (Metallica)...I hate him....

I hope that at some point, Stern and others, realize that cab support is what it is....a free commercial for their game in any house that has one. No one in their right mind is going to chose a virtual version of the real deal, if they had the money and space to get the real deal. If that was the case....the rich would all be driving optioned up Chevy Impala's instead of BMW's and Mercedes....Just my thoughts! End of the petty gripes...

Edit: I also don't think it would hurt their sales. Their target audience are vendors and "Real" pinheads. "Real" pinheads are never going to accept a virtual version of the real deal. However, the "Real" pinheads are all getting older and eventually that pool needs to be replaced. How better than to do it, than with pincabs that eventually alot of people see. I think they should look at it as: Farsight (with cab support) is the "Gateway Drug" and Stern is the heroin dealer....after the younger kids go to school, payoff their loans, and can afford Stern's games...lol No one want's to drive the Chevy Impala forever.....right?

 

[shutyertrap]

That's kinda BS, games in 2015 are a service more than they are a product, and TPA especially is built on an evolving service based model. Cabinet support is one (of too many) examples in which Farsight has over promised and under delivered. Just because he's not as willing to overlook flaws as you are doesn't mean he should be bullied into silence by a moderator.

On a related note, why is it that community members have been able to make more progress on cabinet support in a day or two than the professionals have in 3 years? It's pretty clear that constructive criticism isn't taken into account because FS doesn't value this admittedly small portion of its community. I'm beyond disgusted, and I too am done giving money to FS. If that makes my opinion less valuable than yours so be it.

Bullying? Did I make a threat in my statements? Did I name call, or insult the intelligence of that individual? I think not. And I don't mind negative comments, except when they are completely ignoring certain truths that are readily apparent. People at times forget that this site is not run by, operated, or owned by FarSight. Some of the developers come here, and we are thankful for that. True complaints that FarSight will read and possibly respond to, try visiting their Facebook page. Send an email to their customer support. This site is not the dumping ground of grief for those that want FarSight to read.

As for over promising... The only promise FarSight makes is at the start of a season when a pass is made available. That is, there will be 10 tables made available. They have never promised a season would include a new UI, or cab support, or DX11, different physics, ball spin, or online multiplayer. They only promise working tables. This is why the number one thing we most harp about is the bug list. For those buying individual tables, each one is available for free demo trial before purchase so that you know exactly what you are getting beforehand. Don't like the way a table looks or plays? Don't buy it, wait for an update. I'm not making excuses for FarSight. What I am saying is, the product is significantly better than it was 4 years ago with those first 4 tables. And I, like many others, were quite happy with those at the time. There have been some huge stumbles by FarSight, but the game has always been playable and never less than what it started as.

NoEx took more than 3 days to get his camera mod up and working. He's put in a lot of hard work to make it function and has been very humble about it. Others are now joining in as a labor of love. The professionals are busy making the game work with new content monthly, for no fewer than 7 operating systems. They not only have to make the new table work, but ensure a line of code in it doesn't break any of the other tables (something that has happened in more than one instance). This isn't some huge team working on each platform. It's more like one guy for PC, one for iOS, and one for Android, in over simplified terms. If FarSight didn't value the community, they wouldn't bother interacting with us. They wouldn't be logged on to this site, they wouldn't respond on Facebook, and they sure as hell wouldn't grant interviews to guys like me who months earlier ripped them a new one in his podcast.

It reminds me of the Star Wars community. Many have been quite vocal about their displeasure with Lucas continually tweaking and changing the films. The inevitable "my childhood has been raped" comment always crops up, but it doesn't do any good, does it? Then you got the guys out there who are painstakingly reassembling the films to a version of their original glory, or making their own subtle fixes by building and filming their own models, making matte paintings, all sorts of things. And the question pops up, if some dude in his garage can do this, why can't ILM? And the answer is, ILM has a million other things on their plate to move forward with, and (at the time) a boss who honestly didn't think anything wrong with the new changes. The guys in the garage, they're rising to the challenge and creating one themselves that eventually has the effect of embarrassing the big time film makers. That has the potential to spur an 'official' response and maybe even a 'non special edition' special edition than the guy holding onto his VHS copy screaming how Han shot first and he'll not be buying any other version than that.

 

[invitro]

I feel sorry for you guys that keep hanging on the train, hoping that one day FS gets it and actually delivers something worthwhile.

They've been delivering something worthwhile since the first pinball product that they released. They are currently delivering something that is actually much more valuable than what it costs the consumer.

 

[chinzman93]

"As for over promising... The only promise FarSight makes is at the start of a season when a pass is made available. That is, there will be 10 tables made available. They have never promised a season would include a new UI, or cab support, or DX11, different physics, ball spin, or online multiplayer."

Let's be honest...FS staff have posted on the forums that some of the items above are being worked on. While not a promise, it certainly isn't being honest. Timing is everything. Why wasn't the removal of cab support released during the previous Blahcade? If it was an honest mistake or timing by Farsight, give me my season 5 pass back. I have only bought any of these to support a company that I thought was going to potentially offer that. The timing of when this was dropped is odd, if they weren't trying to delay until after Season 5 started. If cab support is a niche, (which it is), then they shouldn't have an issue with a refund for misleading any potential buyers, should they? I am not trying to start crap on this, but I do feel a bit dupped on this deal. Just being honest.

 

[invitro]

Cabinet support is one (of too many) examples in which Farsight has over promised and under delivered.

Did Farsight really promise cabinet support? What are the other examples?

 

[invitro]

Let's be honest...FS staff have posted on the forums that some of the items above are being worked on. While not a promise, it certainly isn't being honest.

What did they do that is dishonest? Do you believe that they weren't really working on what they said they were working on?

 

[mpad]

As stated before I agree that TPA does deliver great value and I still have and will have fun with it.

Also the community takes every little sign as a promise, but FS has a bad history of communication. The were a lot of signs that they are working on cab support.
And they did promise dx11 on their first official game announcement on steam. Hate to pull out the Screenshot, you can find it on steam or in the dx11 time frame thread. They had a hard time to deliver, cause all that new consoles came first, but finally we are there.

To make it short. I see the cancellation of cab support more as a lost opportunity for all, FS, Stern, and players.
Time to write a fax to Gary Stern.

 

[Jeff Strong]

I think it's a stretch to say they didn't "promise" cab support. They were demoing a rough version of it at events and stuff and posting pics of it on their facebook page, even a video of it in action. They always said it was "coming", not that it was something they might do, but something they were indeed going to do. The only thing that wasn't "promised" was the timeframe of when it would be released. In other words, it was a carrot dangled in front of our nose, much like DX11 was for a long time. So to flat out say they aren't going to do it after all is a kick in the sack, no doubt, and I think we have every right to be legitimately bummed...but as SYT said, it's best to just move on and celebrate what the community is able to accomplish.

 

[invitro]

And they did promise dx11 on their first official game announcement on steam. Hate to pull out the Screenshot, you can find it on steam or in the dx11 time frame thread. They had a hard time to deliver, cause all that new consoles came first, but finally we are there.

I am sensitive to promises. I believe that tournaments on PC were promised even more than DX11, if only because there was a spot in the main menu for them since the Steam release in November 2013, if I am remembering all that correctly! And they took longer to come than DX11, but they were probably (?) wanted less.

Now, Head 2 Head is in the main menu, and I see that as a promise that it's coming soon. Since I think it literally says "Coming Soon"...

 

[L33]

It's not my intention to 'take sides' in any way or form regarding promises (or not) from FS regarding cab support. However, as many of you know I recently set off on my own cab building journey. Along this journey I crossed many hurdles and only found the answers by asking questions...some of those questions were sent directly to FS, as their answers would or could be the difference as to how I built my cab.

FS never once used the word 'Promise'. However, from the information I was sent...cab support seemed to be on the cards, so to speak, and the info I was given influenced some purchases and also how I designed my cab. This has come at a cost to myself, and it could be a cost I may never get back. For example...

I was told by FS that there could be a 3rd monitor, but not at release. At release it might just be Dmd.

I was told the backglass would change with each game.

I was also told it would support the virtual plunger.

A few weeks later, when asked about progress, I was informed that that they were nearly there with cab support, but not quite...and keep an eye on FB for announcements.

I believed that cab support was close to being released, especially as I had received 'promising' news about progress, so to ensure I was ready for it, I made a few purchases. I bought the Dmd and the virtual plunger, as FS had assured me they were incorporating those into cab support. At that time I had no reason to think cab support wasn't going to happen so I not only paid for those items, I also incurred shipping costs, and highest of all, custom charges!

As a result, I must be £300 to £400 out of pocket. Yes, I could have waited for cab support to be officially released, but when a respectable company sends you emails informing you that things are almost ready, you take it as read. £400 is a lot of money, but would have been the icing on the cake as far as a fully built cab goes. Now I just have a Dmd sat in a box gathering dust. And I know some will say I can used it for VP, but I'm not great at setting up all that software...it looks over complicated...but I only purchased the Dmd because FS sent me an email saying CS would incorporate a Dmd and CS was pretty close to being finished.

I posted this on here because I'm seeing arguments about wether or not FS made promises regarding CS etc, and I see the arguments heating up. As far as I know, FS never promised anything, at least they never used the words 'we promise', but FS did give the impression it was on its way and was being developed and close to release, which for many, is as good as a promise. And some, like myself, believed in FS so much that we were prepared to invest in this, either by purchasing seasons of TPA when otherwise we may not have, contributing to kickstarters or simply purchasing Dmds, 3rd monitors, plungers etc.

For reasons stated above, I'm really disappointed that FS have put all this on hold, because TPA was partly the reason I built my cab. Yes, it's still playable and much more enjoyable than when I played it on my iPad, but CS would be the ultimate way to play. I can certainly understand everyone else's frustration, especially if they too have invested as I have. Perhaps it is to do with a Stern deal, I don't know. But playing the virtual game has made myself and many friends want to go out and play...even purchase a real Pin. So I think if it is to do with Stern, they are perhaps not understanding how folk work.

But the bottom line is this...I've experienced disappointments throughout life...and this just adds to that list. But as members of the same forum, it's not worth arguing with each other about. We're all here because of our interest in TPA as well as all things pinball. TPA is a great game, with or without CS and I believe it's the best out there, with better things to come. If ur annoyed with FS, don't leave...email your concerns to FS and let them know how you feel. Whilst this forum is a good way to vent your frustration it may never get heard by FS, so let them know your thoughts by email etc. You never know, if enough people contact them, perhaps it may have positive effects. If I knew how to start an online petition...I would. Perhaps that's something worth doing...

In the meantime, it seems FS are aware of Noex and his talents and haven't intervened in any way, so this is a good sign. If Robert and Noex are able to bridge the gap with their ideas then at least we are a step closer to CS, and perhaps we should get behind these guys where possible. But please guys...don't ever promise anything...you'll never hear the last of it! Ha ha.

 

[invitro]

FS never once used the word 'Promise'. However, from the information I was sent...cab support seemed to be on the cards, so to speak, and the info I was given influenced some purchases and also how I designed my cab. This has come at a cost to myself, and it could be a cost I may never get back.

I don't think this is Farsight's fault. Why didn't you wait until cab support was actually in the game, if the things you bought have no use other than for a Farsight-supported cab? Did you ask in this forum what to expect when Farsight says they're working on something? So many of us would've gladly and quickly told you that if they say something is "coming soon", that means "years, if at all."

I am sympathetic to the disappointment, most definitely. But I'm not sympathetic to blaming Farsight to what is probably your misjudgements .

 

[lettuce]

I think they've commented as much as they are willing/can. It's not being actively developed anymore for business reasons.

So were they strong arm to cease design a cab because it would effect sales or real pinball machines??

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

So were they strong arm to cease design a cab because it would effect sales or real pinball machines??

Or it would mean they would no longer be allowed to digitize tables that they knew would be popular (i.e. modern Sterns).

They did the math, and any sales they lose through dropping cab support is always going to be a lot less than what they'd make by having, say, a digitized version of Metallica or Star Trek available on iOS and Android.

Yeah there's butt hurt but business is business.

Like I said before - I think their cab is ready to go, at least into some kind of public alpha/beta. And I'm speculating that it got to the point where they were having meetings about it and certain points came up about how to monetize it, etc. and management got cold feet, decided to check their licenses, and some heavy weight came down from on high, probably with the initials "G.S." on it somewhere.

 

[poposchmatzer]

I would be very interested in it!

After proper calibration of the Mot-Ion PWB controller, (with this tool: DXTweak2) I setup my 8 cab buttons like this.

button1= space, button2= right shift, button3= right ctrl, button8= backspace, button9= enter, button10= left shift, button11= left ctrl, button12= arrow down

I set up nudging buttons under Keyboard 2 in the function category. With this settings, I don't have to shove my cab too strong for a proper nudging and I have no unexpected tilts.

The digital plunger is set up under Mouse 2 with a vertical Spring Mode value of 30. You can change this setting to adjust the plunger movement with the digital one.



Here is my JoyToKey config file content you can copy simply into yours.


[General]
FileVersion=57
NumberOfJoysticks=2
NumberOfButtons=32
DisplayMode=2
UseDiagonalInput=0
UsePOV8Way=0
Threshold=20
Threshold2=20
KeySendMode=0
SoundFile=

[Joystick 1]
Button01=1, 20:00:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Button02=1, A1:27:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Button03=1, A3:00:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Button08=1, 08:00:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Button09=1, 0D:00:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Button10=1, A0:25:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Button11=1, A2:00:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Button12=1, 28:00:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Axis1n=7, 4, 0, 41:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 50, 95, 0.000, 0, 0, 20
Axis1p=7, 4, 0, 44:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 50, 95, 0.000, 0, 0, 20
Axis2n=7, 4, 0, 57:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 50, 95, 0.000, 0, 0, 20
Axis2p=7, 4, 0, 53:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 50, 95, 0.000, 0, 0, 20
Axis4n=8, 50.000000, 50.000000, 0, 30, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0

 

[chinzman93]

After proper calibration of the Mot-Ion PWB controller, (with this tool: DXTweak2) I setup my 8 cab buttons like this.

button1= space, button2= right shift, button3= right ctrl, button8= backspace, button9= enter, button10= left shift, button11= left ctrl, button12= arrow down

I set up nudging buttons under Keyboard 2 in the function category. With this settings, I don't have to shove my cab too strong for a proper nudging and I have no unexpected tilts.

The digital plunger is set up under Mouse 2 with a vertical Spring Mode value of 30. You can change this setting to adjust the plunger movement with the digital one.



Here is my JoyToKey config file content you can copy simply into yours.


[General]
FileVersion=57
NumberOfJoysticks=2
NumberOfButtons=32
DisplayMode=2
UseDiagonalInput=0
UsePOV8Way=0
Threshold=20
Threshold2=20
KeySendMode=0
SoundFile=

[Joystick 1]
Button01=1, 20:00:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Button02=1, A1:27:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Button03=1, A3:00:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Button08=1, 08:00:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Button09=1, 0D:00:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Button10=1, A0:25:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Button11=1, A2:00:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Button12=1, 28:00:00:00, 0.000, 0, 0
Axis1n=7, 4, 0, 41:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 50, 95, 0.000, 0, 0, 20
Axis1p=7, 4, 0, 44:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 50, 95, 0.000, 0, 0, 20
Axis2n=7, 4, 0, 57:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 50, 95, 0.000, 0, 0, 20
Axis2p=7, 4, 0, 53:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 0:0:0:0, 50, 95, 0.000, 0, 0, 20
Axis4n=8, 50.000000, 50.000000, 0, 30, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0

Thanks for the quick response! I will give these values a shot.

 

[mpad]

@ l33
You will come to a point where you setup VP or Unit3D - and you will like it.

 

[chinzman93]

@ l33
You will come to a point where you setup VP or Unit3D - and you will like it.

+1...Totally agree with this! So at least your equipment additions will not be wasted.

 

[francis247uk]

A constructive online petition or mailshot to their offices is actually a great idea but would need a lot signatures/letters to be effective, not sure how many we'd actually get.

Really feel for L33, £400 is a LOT of money to invest, I almost did the same thing.

Ultimately definitely still love TPA & Farsight with or without Cab Support