Farsight, we're breaking up - It's not me, it's you...

[Kratos3]

It's up to Farsight to remain competitive.

 

[kinggo]

we should not have to pay extra for what is the norm, and included in their own game on other platforms.

different platforms, different games. I had gottlieb and williams collection on the original PSP and I bought them again for android. And if FS deceide to re-do all of them again as "TPA 2.0" I'm willing to buy them again. Expecting someone to transfer games from platform to platform or to improve them every year because HW is better is totally unrealistic and makes no sense. We pay once and they make it 10x? Sure, some support is normal and expected but expecting 60+ table to be re-done from scratch and be free of charge and better than the ones we have now..... It would be nice and I wouldn't complain but with high expectations comes big dissapointments.
IMO, the point of this disscusion is to draw the line and prevent getting 80 dated tables.

 

[IGoFirstIndy]

different platforms, different games. And if FS deceide to re-do all of them again as "TPA 2.0" I'm willing to buy them again. Expecting someone to transfer games from platform to platform or to improve them every year because HW is better is totally unrealistic and makes no sense. We pay once and they make it 10x? Sure, some support is normal and expected but expecting 60+ table to be re-done from scratch and be free of charge and better than the ones we have now..... It would be nice and I wouldn't complain but with high expectations comes big dissapointments.
IMO, the point of this disscusion is to draw the line and prevent getting 80 dated tables.

i thought the point of the conversation was for Farsight to stop supporting older tablets and phones so we can have the same functions that are already implemented on other platforms like X-box and Playstation.

and hasn't dx-11 dev already set a precedent of what they're willing to do for free for their fanbase?

 

[kinggo]

yes, but expecting all existing tables with new goodies is a bit unrealistic. If we even get the new goodies.

 

[shutyertrap]

So when Zen let you transfer all your tables into Zen2 and PinballFX 2, that was unrealistic? Or what about when they let you bring all your PS3 tables into PS4? How 'bout Rock Band 4 letting you bring all your DLC into the new game for free?

See, what these and TPA have in common is they look at themselves as a platform. When Sony just upgraded the firmware of their platform, did they ask to be paid more for it? What an Xbox 360's interface and functions looked like when it first came out were wildly different than what it became.

We live in a new reality with digital content. The music industry tried to deny it, and suffered. The movie industry tried to curb things like Netflix...how is that going? The games industry thought of mobile as a joke, a simple diversion. Then companies like Rovio and King and Zynga made enormous piles of cash. You simply have to adjust to the times and adjust to what the paying customer expects. Harmonix took a big survey of what was expected out of them for Rock Band 4, and the number one thing that came across was, we'll buy your new game, but you better damn well not make us pay for DLC all over again.

Now, as somebody pointed out to me a while back, the difference with Rock Band is that there is an actual core game to purchase first. This is different from TPA and Zen. Which is why I look back to Zen, and every step they take in the direction of advancing their game, they make sure the community can come with for free. So no, I am not advocating something that is coming from complete left field. It is being done now, by other games that do not have the same business model as TPA, and by some that do.

We the customers are in a negotiation with the game studios. You do not enter a negotiation by stating what you'd be willing to do, you start by demanding what the other person needs to do.

 

[kinggo]

well, Zen had some 10 tables when they switched to Zen2 and TPA has ~60. And by that logic, all DLC shoud always be updated to follow the new HW but at the same time it should be free because it was paid 10 years ago? Some maybe can do that because they sell so much, others maybe can't.
I don't know what FS will/won't, can/can't do but what we negotiate here is a new modern better android version because HW is capable for a lot more. If that happens the question is what will be with the existing tables. Will the new customers in 2016 be ready to except graphics from 2010 so FS won't touch them or sales will decline and they will change them, who knows. Can they even change them? What about the licences? There's many questions...........But at least the upcominig ones would be better in that case. So, we still win here.

 

[Nightwing]

Aren't the Zen tables on the PS4/Xbox1 straight ports of the 360/PS3 tables?

 

[jaredmorgs]

we should not have to pay extra for what is the norm, and included in their own game on other platforms.

Excellent point.

 

[Jim O'Brien]

Aren't the Zen tables on the PS4/Xbox1 straight ports of the 360/PS3 tables?

No on 380/PS3 they ran at only 720p, now they are a full HD 1080p.

 

[Reagan Dow]

So when Zen let you transfer all your tables into Zen2 and PinballFX 2, that was unrealistic? Or what about when they let you bring all your PS3 tables into PS4? How 'bout Rock Band 4 letting you bring all your DLC into the new game for free?

See, what these and TPA have in common is they look at themselves as a platform. When Sony just upgraded the firmware of their platform, did they ask to be paid more for it? What an Xbox 360's interface and functions looked like when it first came out were wildly different than what it became.

We live in a new reality with digital content. The music industry tried to deny it, and suffered. The movie industry tried to curb things like Netflix...how is that going? The games industry thought of mobile as a joke, a simple diversion. Then companies like Rovio and King and Zynga made enormous piles of cash. You simply have to adjust to the times and adjust to what the paying customer expects. Harmonix took a big survey of what was expected out of them for Rock Band 4, and the number one thing that came across was, we'll buy your new game, but you better damn well not make us pay for DLC all over again.

Now, as somebody pointed out to me a while back, the difference with Rock Band is that there is an actual core game to purchase first. This is different from TPA and Zen. Which is why I look back to Zen, and every step they take in the direction of advancing their game, they make sure the community can come with for free. So no, I am not advocating something that is coming from complete left field. It is being done now, by other games that do not have the same business model as TPA, and by some that do.

We the customers are in a negotiation with the game studios. You do not enter a negotiation by stating what you'd be willing to do, you start by demanding what the other person needs to do.

I have the latest Metallica album on CD...why won't they give me the LP for free gosh darn it!!!

 

[shutyertrap]

I have the latest Metallica album on CD...why won't they give me the LP for free gosh darn it!!!

I realize you're just snarkin', but you know what you can do with that Metallica CD? Burn it to disc, rip it into your computer, copy it as many devices you own as you'd like. You could even put it on cassette if you wanted to go backwards compatible. It is all within your legal right as owner of that disc.

The other thing is you owned that disc with the reasonable expectation it would have a complete album of songs, artwork, and sound acceptable. If you bought the CD and it sounded like it was recorded in mono off a copy of a copy of an 8 Track...(okay, that's harsh in terms of what FS put out, but still)

 

[DrainoBraino]

My 2 cents: I've been playing zaccaria a lot lately, it's awesome. I love all the options and settings. As of now, it's better than TPA. TPA needs to take notes. We need a major physics update and more options.

 

[Michael DiFilippo]

My 2 cents: I've been playing zaccaria a lot lately, it's awesome. I love all the options and settings. As of now, it's better than TPA. TPA needs to take notes. We need a major physics update and more options.

Is it just me or has anyone notice a significant performance increase in ball/flipper physics that occurred this last release?

Despite the ascetics, TPA still rules the land.

 

[kinggo]

My 2 cents: I've been playing zaccaria a lot lately, it's awesome. I love all the options and settings. As of now, it's better than TPA. TPA needs to take notes. We need a major physics update and more options.

As someone who has never even seen Zac pinball, which is weird since they are from the neighborhood, I don't know how they play IRL but also have to say that physics of Zac tables don't impress me much on default settings. I don't find it SO MUCH better as someone might conclude from the posts here on that subject. And adjustable physics isn't my thing.

 

[night]

As someone who has never even seen Zac pinball, which is weird since they are from the neighborhood, I don't know how they play IRL but also have to say that physics of Zac tables don't impress me much on default settings. I don't find it SO MUCH better as someone might conclude from the posts here on that subject. And adjustable physics isn't my thing.

I can tell you that with a little knowledge you can make the standards physics even better. You don't have to adjust the physics yourself, just like the graphics settings. Others who love tweaking can post settings which are better than the standards and all you have to do is duplicate them on your device and enjoy the bennefits. I am working on graphics and physics settings and will post them in the near future. Others did and/or might do the same. How cool is that?!

 

[TomL]

Is it just me, or do the Zac flippers seem laggy to user input compared to TPA flippers? I see this on my N7 2012 and N5.

 

[Nightwing]

I do like the Zac app,for what it is. But you are working with all EMs & SS machines,and not anything from the DMD era. I do like Zen,for what it is,but TPA is still a decent app.

My biggest concern with TPA (other than no Banzai Run) is like most,it could be so much better.
At some point you have to move on from the older machines. How much longer can you honestly support the first iPad?

The tourney "harder" modes upcoming will hopefully fix some of the issues that TPA has. And continuing to work on delivering on some of their many promises,like DX 11 support.

 

[Baron Rubik]

Is it just me, or do the Zac flippers seem laggy to user input compared to TPA flippers? I see this on my N7 2012 and N5.

TPA flipper physics are ridiculously bad being pretty much digital, in that they are either energised or not with no in between states.
Zacc with a little set up feels spot on to me. You get the occasional physics glitch, but that could be my older device slowing down in fairness.

I do like the Zac app,for what it is. But you are working with all EMs & SS machines,and not anything from the DMD era. I do like Zen,for what it is,but TPA is still a decent app.

Zen and TPA for me just give too long a play time per game. TPA particularly annoys me as it's meant to be a simulation but fails (Zen is just something that's different by design).
I can't play a real TZ for longer than 5mins on one game, so why can I play the TPA version for 2 consecutive LITZ in a row. Why did I have to let my last game of Addams Family drain deliberately when a single game went beyond the 40 minutes I get for my work lunch. Railroad physics paths and bad flipper physics.

 

[Nightwing]

TPA flipper physics are ridiculously bad being pretty much digital, in that they are either energised or not with no in between states

Zen and TPA for me just give too long a play time per game. TPA particularly annoys me as it's meant to be a simulation but fails (Zen is just something that's different by design).

I can't play a real TZ for longer than 5mins on one game, so why can I play the TPA version for 2 consecutive LITZ in a row. Why did I have to let my last game of Addams Family drain deliberately when a single game went beyond the 40 minutes I get for my work lunch. Railroad physics paths and bad flipper physics.

Totally agree about the flippers. Definitely something that could some tweaking on some tables. I think the mods mentioned in the last Blahcade podcast aboutputting some ball spin into TPA would help? Also,as I've stated previously - I think that the "easy" standard mode should stay in TPA,so people of all skill levels can play.

Having said that (and I've said this before too) - having a hard mode or tournament settings is an absolute must. TZ is ridiculously easy compared to any real TZ table. I'm lucky if I last two minutes in reality,but I've even gotten to LITZ in TPA.

So I can imagine how frustrating it is for skilled players to slog through the easy settings in TPA. FS CANNOT stop with just 8 tables. All TPA tables should have the harder settings put in at some point.

 

[Baron Rubik]

Totally agree that difficulty settings would/could partially rejuvenate TPA.
I agree it should be available for all tables though, even if leaderboards aren't changed and shouldn't be an extra charge for existing customers IMO.

I don't mind the Zacc leaderboard system where settings are irrelevant personally.