Farsight, we're breaking up - It's not me, it's you...

[Baron Rubik]

It won't work on the Apple watch? I'm devastated. Already ordered the gold version to play afm gold on it...

It'll work on the Apple pocket watch.

 

[superballs]

Just curious. Is it ok to stop supporting older hardware for people who have paid for an app? So someone purchased something, gets an update and can no longer play?

I've been prepping a DX11 release on Steam, and in doing so I accidentally broke the build on Windows XP. According to Steam, as of January 2014, Windows XP only makes up 6% of users. But I had over a dozen people say the game stopped working for them. Would it be fair to tell them, we no longer support XP so your game you purchased will no longer run?

I think it's fair and personally wish more developers would do it in a more timely fashion.

I mean if that hardware is actually holding the software back then yes, it's perfectly to expect people to upgrade their hardware eventually.

 

[IGoFirstIndy]

Just another point to be made on this subject. servicing generation 1 iPad and iPhone users along with servicing PS3 and 360 is a finite pool of people. and it's only going to shrink. Correct me if i'm wrong, but if i buy a table on the playstation network with my ps3, i should in theory be able to download it from the network when i buy a PS4? so you're not really cutting anyone off. you're moving along with Sony and X-box's hardware.

Meanwhile keeping up with technology and updating your mobile devices will bring you in new customers on new platforms where the hardware is inherently updated every 3-4 years if not faster with phone plans. at this point playing Cyclone on iOS makes it feel older than any of the Zacc tables. the atmosphere ASK, Zen, Color Monkey and Pro Pinball bring to their tables with lighting and sound design is starting to become a glaring omission when it comes to TPA.

I really hope Farsight considers the future, as there are a ton of tables still to be made, but name value alone won't make them insta-buys anymore. What will is the overall TPA experience on IOS and right now Farsight is falling behind quickly when they should be at the head of the pack.

i rant because i care....

 

[jaredmorgs]

Just another point to be made on this subject. servicing generation 1 iPad and iPhone users along with servicing PS3 and 360 is a finite pool of people. and it's only going to shrink. Correct me if i'm wrong, but if i buy a table on the playstation network with my ps3, i should in theory be able to download it from the network when i buy a PS4? so you're not really cutting anyone off. you're moving along with Sony and X-box's hardware.

Meanwhile keeping up with technology and updating your mobile devices will bring you in new customers on new platforms where the hardware is inherently updated every 3-4 years if not faster with phone plans. at this point playing Cyclone on iOS makes it feel older than any of the Zacc tables. the atmosphere ASK, Zen, Color Monkey and Pro Pinball bring to their tables with lighting and sound design is starting to become a glaring omission when it comes to TPA.

I really hope Farsight considers the future, as there are a ton of tables still to be made, but name value alone won't make them insta-buys anymore. What will is the overall TPA experience on IOS and right now Farsight is falling behind quickly when they should be at the head of the pack.

i rant because i care....

Ditto for all mobile platforms.

 

[superballs]

i thought the point of the conversation was for Farsight to stop supporting older tablets and phones so we can have the same functions that are already implemented on other platforms like X-box and Playstation.

and hasn't dx-11 dev already set a precedent of what they're willing to do for free for their fanbase?

The DX11 lighting was promised before the PC version was even released. I think it's rightfully expected. No such promise was made for the mobile versions. This makes it kind of a grey area.

 

[superballs]

No on 380/PS3 they ran at only 720p, now they are a full HD 1080p.

If that's the only difference I'd consider that a straight port. Same assets at a different resolution does not a new game make.

If I ran Zen on my pc, but could only run it at 720p, then got a new PC and could run it at 1080p it wouldn't be a new game. In all fairness it wouldn't be a port either but you see what I mean right?

 

[night]

It started all with the first kickstarter, Twilight Zone, which was a big graphic disappointment for such an expensive table. It should have been Farsights eye catcher for all the money people had pledged, but it was a graphic pancake. I remember making a whole bunch of posts about that one, back in the days when you where still considered a heretic if you said anything negative about Farsight (I have been called an obnoxious troll for that by a TPA fundamentalist). The graphic downfall is not something recent, it has been going on for a long time now, and thanks to the great works of ASK it has been an eye opener for what TPA could have been if more folks would have push that alarm button a whole lot earlier.

 

[Baron Rubik]

It started all with the first kickstarter, Twilight Zone

Agreed - this was the time I first thought - hmmm, you know I'm starting to think they aren't ever going to fix these bugs.

Twilight Zone was the end of the TPA honeymoon for me also.

 

[Tabe]

Just another point to be made on this subject. servicing generation 1 iPad and iPhone users along with servicing PS3 and 360 is a finite pool of people. and it's only going to shrink. Correct me if i'm wrong, but if i buy a table on the playstation network with my ps3, i should in theory be able to download it from the network when i buy a PS4?

Not correct. Buying tables on the PS3 doesn't get you the table on the PS4 with TPA. It does with Zen but not with TPA.

 

[IGoFirstIndy]

Not correct. Buying tables on the PS3 doesn't get you the table on the PS4 with TPA. It does with Zen but not with TPA.

Thanks for the info. i only play on iPad.

That's incredibly lame to hear. you should at least have access to the ps3 version. sorry. is that the norm or the exception?

I can't see myself paying extra for something Farsight should be doing to stay relevant on mobile devices anyway. more bells and whistles should be about attracting new consumers, not double dipping on your most loyal ones.

 

[shutyertrap]

Thanks for the info. i only play on iPad.

That's incredibly lame to hear. you should at least have access to the ps3 version. sorry. is that the norm or the exception?

I can't see myself paying extra for something Farsight should be doing to stay relevant on mobile devices anyway. more bells and whistles should be about attracting new consumers, not double dipping on your most loyal ones.

PS3 games purchased digitally are not compatible with PS4. That is simply a hardware issue. Zen however came out with a PS4 version of their game, and then invited everyone that had it on PS3 to migrate over for free. So it wasn't quite a straight port over, as obviously they had to make it run on a PS4, but otherwise nothing much changed (or so I hear as I don't have a PS4).

FarSight introduced dynamic lighting, which obviously made the game look different. However, the physics, art, and game play are all carry overs from the PS3. As much as the argument that it is a different game and all can be made by some, the counter to that is on Steam we essentially have the Xbox 360 version now, and are about to get the next gen version with DX 11 lighting. And it won't cost a thing. So how flimsy is that argument again?

One other thing...I'm sure there's a cost to FS to publishing their games on the new systems. So how 'bout making it economical? Like a one time $10 fee for ALL tables bought on PS3? Not seasons, all. That I could actually see making sense. I mainly come back to this; look at what your competitors are doing. If you are not out there with the absolute across the board best product, then you can't lead the way but have to fall in line.

 

[Dedpop]

One other thing...I'm sure there's a cost to FS to publishing their games on the new systems. So how 'bout making it economical? Like a one time $10 fee for ALL tables bought on PS3? Not seasons, all. That I could actually see making sense. I mainly come back to this; look at what your competitors are doing. If you are not out there with the absolute across the board best product, then you can't lead the way but have to fall in line.

100% agree.

 

[superballs]

PS3 games purchased digitally are not compatible with PS4. That is simply a hardware issue. Zen however came out with a PS4 version of their game, and then invited everyone that had it on PS3 to migrate over for free. So it wasn't quite a straight port over, as obviously they had to make it run on a PS4, but otherwise nothing much changed (or so I hear as I don't have a PS4).

FarSight introduced dynamic lighting, which obviously made the game look different. However, the physics, art, and game play are all carry overs from the PS3. As much as the argument that it is a different game and all can be made by some, the counter to that is on Steam we essentially have the Xbox 360 version now, and are about to get the next gen version with DX 11 lighting. And it won't cost a thing. So how flimsy is that argument again?

One other thing...I'm sure there's a cost to FS to publishing their games on the new systems. So how 'bout making it economical? Like a one time $10 fee for ALL tables bought on PS3? Not seasons, all. That I could actually see making sense. I mainly come back to this; look at what your competitors are doing. If you are not out there with the absolute across the board best product, then you can't lead the way but have to fall in line.

I think even 10$ a season would be reasonable.
The question really is, should people really feel entitled?

The difference between Zen PS3 and PS4 is largely one of resolution, it's basically a port.
TPA at least made a very noteworthy change to the game.

That said, different companies treat new consoles differently with different products. By the same logic, if I purchased it for Android, I should get it for free or at a discount on all platforms. I mean if I bought the version that ran on Windows, because, you know, Microsoft, I should have it on XBOX 360 and XBOne. This isn't a rule set in stone and I'm not sure I can subscribe to the "digital distribution is that big a game-changer" idea, that because it's digitally distributed, it is somehow different than being distributed on physical media.

I mean the 360 and the OG XBOX both stored their media on DVD, they weren't completely backward compatible (half-assed emulation doesn't count).
PS2 and PS1 used different media technically but one was completely backward compatible, much like Wii > GGN, and Wii U > Wii, despite all using completely different media (besides being optical disks).

At the end of the day, it's still just bits and bytes, and bits are bits, regardless of the medium they are loaded from.

If I had a copy of Startopia on CD, DVD, GOG DD, and Steam DD, it would still be the same game and wouldn't change how it's executed.

 

[mpad]

Pebble Time Steel backer here. Backed the pebble 1.0 on Kickstarter as well. No regrets. Can't wait for June!

Backed for a steel as well... Coming along nicely.
Hope in June there will already be a ton of stuff to customize and mod around with it...

 

[shutyertrap]

I think even 10$ a season would be reasonable.
The question really is, should people really feel entitled?

It's not "entitlement" but good customer appreciation. And yes, they should. Not many games sell continued content for 3+ years. We are building a collection, but what if the OS we are building it on stops before the collection is complete?

Personally, it is why I stopped buying on PS3 and switched to PC. I knew at least the PC wouldn't suddenly stop for some reason. And no, I didn't feel I should be given my tables for free for switching, but I also wasn't going to pay full price. So I waited for a Steam sale.

The difference between Zen PS3 and PS4 is largely one of resolution, it's basically a port.
TPA at least made a very noteworthy change to the game.

A noteworthy change they won't be charging anything different for on PC.

By the same logic, if I purchased it for Android, I should get it for free or at a discount on all platforms. I mean if I bought the version that ran on Windows, because, you know, Microsoft, I should have it on XBOX 360 and XBOne.

I mean the 360 and the OG XBOX both stored their media on DVD, they weren't completely backward compatible (half-assed emulation doesn't count).
PS2 and PS1 used different media technically but one was completely backward compatible, much like Wii > GGN, and Wii U > Wii, despite all using completely different media (besides being optical disks).

At the end of the day, it's still just bits and bytes, and bits are bits, regardless of the medium they are loaded from.

If I had a copy of Startopia on CD, DVD, GOG DD, and Steam DD, it would still be the same game and wouldn't change how it's executed.

You are comparing apples to oranges. For starters, the games you mentioned are one-offs, entities that did not continue with monthly content. Backwards compatibility for systems was and is used as a selling point, but has nothing to do with the game studios being part of that decision.

I'm trying to compare apples to apples. Look at Little Big Planet. Data, custom levels, costumes; these things carried over from the first game to the 3rd. I can't confirm that data jumped from PS3 to PS4, but from what I've read it seems that is the case. I already mentioned what Zen did, what Harmonix is going to do. So it is not unprecedented. These studios realize there can be a breaking point with customer favor and loyalty. The return for these gestures is even stronger and more fervent buying from the base customer, because they know they'll be taken care of. It is an assurance.

 

[freddy.bassett]

Hi there.. never posted before but was drawn to this thread. I like Pinball Arcade and Zen. I have all the tables from PA and am catching up with the ones from Zen. I was thinking when i saw this thread last night just after playing Zen (which is my go to set of tables now) that i havn't played PA in a while. The reason is on my Nexus 9 the tilt function is a little bit annoying. Just a gentle shake of the tablet to nudge the table causes the tilt warning and end of the game. I don't get that with Zen. I'm not a very good pinball player but i enjoy picking the tablet up and playing a few games. The overpowering nudge/tilt on the Nexus 9 leads me to going to Zen more now. I have another issue too but thats just cos i'm not the best player ever, that i swear the flippers are a little too short on PA. I keep getting the ball disappearing down past them a little too much for my liking . Thats another reason why i pick up Zen more as they give you a couple of chances

 

[Extork]

Hi there.. never posted before but was drawn to this thread. I like Pinball Arcade and Zen. I have all the tables from PA and am catching up with the ones from Zen. I was thinking when i saw this thread last night just after playing Zen (which is my go to set of tables now) that i havn't played PA in a while. The reason is on my Nexus 9 the tilt function is a little bit annoying. Just a gentle shake of the tablet to nudge the table causes the tilt warning and end of the game. I don't get that with Zen. I'm not a very good pinball player but i enjoy picking the tablet up and playing a few games. The overpowering nudge/tilt on the Nexus 9 leads me to going to Zen more now. I have another issue too but thats just cos i'm not the best player ever, that i swear the flippers are a little too short on PA. I keep getting the ball disappearing down past them a little too much for my liking . Thats another reason why i pick up Zen more as they give you a couple of chances

With TPA, it just depends on the table you're playing. People complain about Diner being to hard. But if you're flipping away while the ball is trying to drain down the center, you can pull it off

 

[freddy.bassett]

Yeah I know it's me. I'm not very good lol and some tables are fine. It's all about finding the right ones that suit my ability or lack of it

 

[Baron Rubik]

Hi there.. never posted before but was drawn to this thread. I like Pinball Arcade and Zen. I have all the tables from PA and am catching up with the ones from Zen. I was thinking when i saw this thread last night just after playing Zen (which is my go to set of tables now) that i havn't played PA in a while. The reason is on my Nexus 9 the tilt function is a little bit annoying. Just a gentle shake of the tablet to nudge the table causes the tilt warning and end of the game. I don't get that with Zen. I'm not a very good pinball player but i enjoy picking the tablet up and playing a few games. The overpowering nudge/tilt on the Nexus 9 leads me to going to Zen more now. I have another issue too but thats just cos i'm not the best player ever, that i swear the flippers are a little too short on PA. I keep getting the ball disappearing down past them a little too much for my liking . Thats another reason why i pick up Zen more as they give you a couple of chances

Hey Freddy, good first post.
The nudge strength in TPA using shake seems device specific. Shake my phone and it barely registers, but shake my old N7 and it's perfect, and I'd guess your N9 is the other side of the sensitivity scale.
I'd agree that a Zen style slider would solve the problem.

Have you tried playing via a Bluetooth controller though?
Either a Moga Pro, or Nyko playpad would work without root. Nykos go for around £20 or $25.
And you can use them in all the major Pinball games on the Play store now.
Controller play gives analogue nudging in TPA and Zen, but is digital in Zacc.

Some other good Pinball games for you to check out (which you didn't mention) are...

Zaccaria - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=hu.magicpixel.Zaccaria
Try for free - older tables, but awesome graphics, sound, and physics.
Set physics to 'simulation' though before judging. (£15 for gold which gives access to all)

Revenge of the Rob-O-Bot - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=se.nena.pinball.robobot
Standalone table, which only has nudge up bizarrely, but is a really nice game of Pinball. Costs around £2-3

 

[freddy.bassett]

Thanks Baron, yeah i'll have to try the bluetooth and see. I'd read up on the Zacc tables from others here. I've resisted the urge to download so far. Suppose i better set my profile up better later, i was planning on being "one and done" hahaha.. I do enjoy all the tables that i play. I'll never break any records but its fun to play