I've Had It With Farsight Studios

[canuck]

 

[SilverBalls]

Well said.

It's a management issue, for sure...and their art department is rather shaky as well.

I have said it before and will say it again. Why not ditch the expensive art dept and get some more programmers. For the art draw on the great artists in the VP community, grizz, etc. and employ them on a freelance basis. I mean, FS use a instamatic camera to photograph tables, whereas the VP community use professional scanners of playfields for some tables.

 

[wolfson]

some of you guys are so full of it !!! just play pinball.if you want something precise cough up about $6,000 and buy 1 real table,and try to look after it and see how many times it breaks down in the first 6 months. I had a fish and chip shop for 15 years which I had a couple pinball machines which were swapped about every 2 months. take it from me they broke down regulary. had PINBOT,BOP,DR.DUDE,FUNHOUSE,ADDAMS FAMILY,TOM,CV,TAXI,SPACE SHUTTLE,TOAN,SIMPSONS and a lot of other tables. what we have in TPA from FARSIGHT is a CHEAP BLOODY BLESSING, BE GRATEFULL !!!

 

[wolfson]

for you GALAHS out there Mayuh explains it better than me.

If it would be working, it wouldn't be pinball.
Both real and digital
Go buy a real machine, repair that 25 year old buddy, tune it until it plays real good, try to maintain that state for 6 months. Now count your time and money spent. Either you continue without a second thought, or you start to cry

Ps. Just think of what can go wrong... 120 bulbs, 50 contacts, 800m (1/2 mile) of wires, 1000+ solder points, old electronics, wear on mechanical parts, ramps/ball guards that send the ball around completely wrong, due to some half millimeter incorrectly adjusted curve, contacts that wouldn't work when the machine gets warmer... Yeah, and my personal favorite: corroded pins on molex connectors!

 

[netizen]

Maybe FarSight can get all super hardcore and program in various "random" bugs to better simulate meat space pinball.

Things like the ball jumping the slingshot and landing in the outlane, or getting stuck in gates and the player not being able to nudge it out, having switches/coils "burn" out in the middle of a game, simulating power surges so the emulation has to reboot mid game, etc.

 

[Jeff Strong]

some of you guys are so full of it !!! just play pinball.if you want something precise cough up about $6,000 and buy 1 real table,and try to look after it and see how many times it breaks down in the first 6 months. I had a fish and chip shop for 15 years which I had a couple pinball machines which were swapped about every 2 months. take it from me they broke down regulary. had PINBOT,BOP,DR.DUDE,FUNHOUSE,ADDAMS FAMILY,TOM,CV,TAXI,SPACE SHUTTLE,TOAN,SIMPSONS and a lot of other tables. what we have in TPA from FARSIGHT is a CHEAP BLOODY BLESSING, BE GRATEFULL !!!

I like you wolfson and I am grateful for the mobile versions. It's just a bit hard for us PC guys who have the luxury of seeing what VP can do, and then to look at TPA. You'd figure a paid product would be higher quality...better physics, more polish, more features, more options and adjustments, etc. I guess I was just hoping Farsight would do more to win over the PC crowd since it's been the most loyal platform for pinball gaming, historically.

 

[wolfson]

Jeff point taken,like you I have the VP tables and I know what your saying. but my tables look ****ty just on my laptop,but once I hook up to my tv the nividea gt555 kicks in plus I put the vibrancy up a bit and my tables look really great. they will look much better when the new lighting comes out. my tables on ps4 look great so I can`t wait !!! I believe the pc will be the best, once the lighting is done ,because the updates are easier compared to all trouble we have getting updates on the consoles.that`s why I don`t worry that the consoles are behind. I love playing on my pc when it`s hooked up to my tv.

I like you wolfson and I am grateful for the mobile versions. It's just a bit hard for us PC guys who have the luxury of seeing what VP can do, and then to look at TPA. You'd figure a paid product would be higher quality...better physics, more polish, more features, more options and adjustments, etc. I guess I was just hoping Farsight would do more to win over the PC crowd since it's been the most loyal platform for pinball gaming, historically.

 

[Espy]

I have to say. I play only the PS3 version (a.k.a. the terrible version that couldn't even be patched until recently), and the times I discovered a bug that ruined the experience for me are few. The only ones I can think of are Arnie's hollow neck and occasional missing balls in Scared Stiff. And I don't think I'm in the minority.

What I'm trying to say is that the people who nitpick at these bugs are the most hardcore of fans, and there are plenty of other more casual fans who don't even notice them. That's why it's not a priority for Farsight to fix them.

 

[Firefox2000]

Jeff point taken,like you I have the VP tables and I know what your saying. but my tables look ****ty just on my laptop,but once I hook up to my tv the nividea gt555 kicks in plus I put the vibrancy up a bit and my tables look really great. they will look much better when the new lighting comes out. my tables on ps4 look great so I can`t wait !!! I believe the pc will be the best, once the lighting is done ,because the updates are easier compared to all trouble we have getting updates on the consoles.that`s why I don`t worry that the consoles are behind. I love playing on my pc when it`s hooked up to my tv.

Same here, i have been scratching my head at some of the comments on how the game looks, as personally i think the tables look fantastic, despite the issues, but on my GTX 760, 1080p, everything on full settings, on my 60 in plasma, the game looks simply stunning, love the lighting effects and overall feel of the PC version, well compared to the PS3 version.


Now if only i were only any good at it, to be able to get even close to some of those top scores.

 

[lio]

Bugfixes unfortunately don't pay the bills.

Maybe not in the way that new table packs do but I think they do hurt their sales by not fixing more than they do.
Imagine a new user trying any buggy table as his or her first TPA table, it leaves a poor impression and that person moves on without bothering to try other tables or buying anything - a lost (possible) customer.

The released tables are Farsight's portfolio, their showcase - they speak for the quality that Farsight offers or fails to offer.
So even in their own interest I think they should spend some more time on getting at least the most obvious and annoying bugs fixed so they don't scare away new customers that would potentially spend a lot of money on their back catalogue.

That said, I actually do not have many issues with TPA on Android or Windows PC and the things I would like to see fixed are pretty much luxury issues like imperfect artwork cleanups or wrong style bumper caps, nothing game breaking (still, in some cases I don't know why they even got it wrong in the first place when doing it right would have been just as easy).

Also since I started to watch the twitch podcasts (sadly the time zone pretty much forces me to watch the recorded stream instead of the live stream) Farsight feels so much more "human" to me, no longer like just a faceless company that I demand "perfect" software from for the money I paid - this is no big multi-million company and it shows in good and bad ways but I certainly tend to be more understanding and forgiving with them knowing who they are.

I really wish them well and hope they will be able to do this for many years to come even though I still wish they'd spend a bit more time on quality control before releasing anything but I feel they've got their heart in the right place and the more recent tables have gotten quite a bit better.

 

[Zorgwon]

That said, I actually do not have many issues with TPA on Android or Windows PC and the things I would like to see fixed are pretty much luxury issues like imperfect artwork cleanups or wrong style bumper caps, nothing game breaking (still, in some cases I don't know why they even got it wrong in the first place when doing it right would have been just as easy).

Does TZ multiball work for you?

 

[lio]

Does TZ multiball work for you?

It seems to... even though on my first try to verify this I had a camera problem where the camera would point down at the ball in the shooter lane that came in via the left ramp - however I could not reproduce this afterwards so far.

edit: However I just had my first game of "lights, camera, action" on Windows PC and the camera never looks at the backbox during the gunfight regardless of the camera settings (fixed camera or not)... guess I should not have been so quick with my "nothing game breaking" comment.

 

[Xanija]

Make sure you have Event Camera: On

Table Menu
Help and Options
Settings
Event Camera: On.

Oder auf deutsch ;-)

Im Tisch-Menu:
Hilfe und Optionen
Einstellungen
Event Kamera: An

 

[vpalmer]

And it is actually possible to spend so much time fixing things and adding things and making the 100% perfectly engineered product, that you go bankrupt in the process

what are you talking about? FS coul not fix textures and typos on Genie and MB for years - just f.e.

 

[Zorgwon]

Make sure you have Event Camera: On

Table Menu
Help and Options
Settings
Event Camera: On.

Oder auf deutsch ;-)

Im Tisch-Menu:
Hilfe und Optionen
Einstellungen
Event Kamera: An

In the TZ forum the opposite is recommended.

 

[Xanija]

This is correct for TZ. But I was referring to lio's issue he mentioned for LCA. This is not a bug there, but just not correct in the settings.

In TZ the event cam sometimes causes problems, but doesn't really serve a purpose for the game and therefore in TZ I would indeed turn it off.

 

[karl]

Most of the stuff talked about in this thread does not bother me that much. There is one thing I wish they would take a look at though, Physics!

My only problem with the game on IPAD 3 at the moment is that I feel the physics, especially the flipper physics is in a dire need of an update. This didn't bother me at all the first season but somehow I feel it has gotten worse every season.(maybe it's just me getting old and slow) Most of the tables in season 3 is more tedious than fun for me at the moment. On Ipad 3 the ball can get up to unrealistic speeds and that makes the bad flipper accuracy even more evident. Hitting ramps in Junkyard and Who Dunnit comes to mind, especially.

When it comes to the art (at least on IPAD) I think they are doing better and better. Season 3 looks (for the most part) really nice in my view. (PC is another topic though)

 

[Zorgwon]

Most of the stuff talked about in this thread does not bother me that much. There is one thing I wish they would take a look at though, Physics!

My only problem with the game on IPAD 3 at the moment is that I feel the physics, especially the flipper physics is in a dire need of an update. This didn't bother me at all the first season but somehow I feel it has gotten worse every season.(maybe it's just me getting old and slow) Most of the tables in season 3 is more tedious than fun for me at the moment. On Ipad 3 the ball can get up to unrealistic speeds and that makes the bad flipper accuracy even more evident. Hitting ramps in Junkyard and Who Dunnit comes to mind, especially.

Regarding physics TPA still wins the competition. On some tables it's hyperkinetic, though. Yesterday I played F2K and the table played itself for long times. No chance to use the flippers. Aiming is pretty good, once I get the chance.

 

[Mark W**a]

I love pinball and video pinball which is why it's so disappointing that Farsight makes such a mess of these tables and does so little to fix it. I own a lot of tables on Vita and I try out new tables on my iPhone. The Vita has so many issues it'd take a day to list them all. After waiting forever for the promised big "fix" patch the first table I went to after installing it was Black Knight. Sure enough, the dot matrix display still constantly shows each players scores, and since there's just one row for scores that means it mostly just reads 8's since everything's superimposed over everything else. Great fix.
Yesterday, I decided to see if Farsight had gotten it's act together on newer tables and tried the free trial of Lights Camera Action. I locked my second ball. Each consecutive ball proceeded to just come to a rest on the locked one. Call attendant. Try again. Same thing. I started a new game blocked a ball. Same thing.
What really sucks is that a game containing all these great tables should be fantastic. Unfortunately, Farsight stretches themselves so thin and is more concerned with releasing new tables on as many platforms as possible, broken or not, than taking the time to fix what they've already released. I guess they figure there's no money in that. Hopefully enough people will get fed up about buying broken tables that it'll come to a point where there's no money for releasing new broken tables either.

A lot of customers feel the same as you.

Farsights two biggest fails with this game and how they've handled development are, imo, the following:

Community Management: This doesn't fall on one guys back, I'm not talking about the community manager who runs, say, the Facebook page. I'm talking about when Bobby King himself, whose the head of his dept. tells us that Black Knight Rom emulation is done and coming in the NEXT update. That was nearly 2 years ago he said that.

Rule #1 just be honest and upfront with people. If they had said "that's something we're working on but it's not a top priority right now" or whatever, just never lie, that will lose you fans right there. And it's grass-roots, hardcore fans that are your bread and butter support. Never **** them.

And 2 is just quality control. I know this company has better quality control than what we've seen with Pinball Arcade, because the Williams Collection, as outdated as it is, is polished as all hell. I think this was the mistake of simply taking on far too many platforms for such a small company, quality was/is going to take a hit no matter how you slice it. A more focused game that trims the fat (sorry Vita, Mac, Ouya owners) and just focuses on the important platforms (console, mobile, PC) would have been a lot better by default. Remember, Wiliams was only on 3 systems: Wii, PS3 and 360.

Though to be fair, the Ouya version is "free" since it's just Android (I think), and they launched at an awkward time, right when new systems were coming out, and a lot of developers are stretched thin these days across PS3, 360, Xbox One, PS4, and Wii U, that really couldn't have been avoided.

Unfortunately I don't ever think certain bugs will ever be addressed. At this point I've just accepted it, and look at the positives, which this game really is badass all things considered. I just really wish at least ONE platform would have a super polished, definitive version of the game on it. As it stands, each one has issues and some of those may never be addressed :/

 

[Mark W**a]

Bugfixes unfortunately don't pay the bills. And it is actually possible to spend so much time fixing things and adding things and making the 100% perfectly engineered product, that you go bankrupt in the process. (There are several examples but the Duke Nukem Forever story is probably the most infamous of this.)

There are certainly a few show-stopper type bugs that I wish Farsight would fix, but Farsight is *far* from the only game out there with their fair share of bugs. It's just the reality of today's game development cycle. I don't know about Farsight per se, but overall IMHO actually tend to be hyper-compressed (QA is often the first development department to get the short end of the stick) and over-reliant on crunch-time modes. (Several large gaming companies including EA and Rockstar have gotten negative "spouse" type blogs or news articles over the years, which detail poor work life balances at many of these companies.)

Your alternative these days is the Visual Pinball type approach, which is hobbyist run. This can produce good work, but it's often a lot slower and messier to deal with since you are dealing with coders etc. putting in hours on their own time.

Even hardware like the original pinball machines had their bugs and quirks, but they often had less of them. And small wonder because they often had a lot longer development life cycles (and also a much higher machine cost that could support that life cycle). Mobile business models are different, they are low cost, push-the-product-as-quick-as-possible type deals. Not as good for QC, all around. (To be honest in today's new world TPA's business model doesn't fit very well. "Free to play" type models are sneakily deceptive, and TPA's model provokes whines about how $5 for two tables is too expensive.)

Bug fixes are an important part of any modern game. Don't wanna fix bugs? Your hardcore customer base will turn on you, and who do you think is the basis for word of mouth, where all the casual players learn from? Microsoft learned hard what happens when you piss off the base, and are trying to turn that mess around. You better believe they did a lot; took out Kinect (taking a hit on profit), changed policies, added in features. None of which makes them any money per say, it's done to try and reconcile with fans.

Honestly the entire games bugs, I could condense the important ones in both gameplay and artwork, and it could be a month's work AT WORST. I'm dead serious. It's really not huge issues, it's little stuff that adds up, and especially the art stuff can and should be fixed quite easily.

There's nothing wrong with 5$ per table. The problem is you've been charging customers 5$ for 2 tables for over a year, and then switch it up on them. That's why the sales haven't been as good.

Farsight came out right before the free to play model hit it big. However they have most certainly benefited by being 'free', and are free to play. Tales of the Arabian Nights is free to all. They've had 5 million + downloads on just Android alone. Most FTP games sell in app weapons, powerups, items, whatever. They can't really do that, and on FTP games it's too easy to cheat the "wait a day for extra lives" thing, you just move up the clock on iPhones. I think they've benefited from that boom though.