Losing faith in Farsight?

[Bonzo]

[...]but some of the smaller bugs (like the drawbridge art in MM) look like 5 minute fixes that should have been crossed off the snag list by now.

My guess is, that FS are working ther a**es off, to get all those bugs fixed that impact the gameplay. Sure, there are quite a few minor graphic issues like the one you mentioned, and maybe those could be fixed without too much time spent. That time would be lost for fixing major issues, though.

can live without a drawbridge, as long as the cam doesn't feel like it's dancing to the hottest dubstep grooves or there are multiple balls in the plunger etc.

 

[Actionball]

My guess is, that FS are working ther a**es off, to get all those bugs fixed that impact the gameplay. Sure, there are quite a few minor graphic issues like the one you mentioned, and maybe those could be fixed without too much time spent. That time would be lost for fixing major issues, though.

I don't see FS breaking much of a sweat about the bugs now or ever. The majority of income from DLC is in the first few days, what incentive do they have to devote their limited resources to a table not generating revenue? Some of the glaring bugs and omissions from the first few DLC that people are reporting are a bit shocking.

Its not like they are overlooking some burried mode issue most people will never see or notice. The fact that the Vita release wrecked the graphics, MM flippers too far apart etc, things a beta tester should have caught first play...how do you miss that unless they are doing ZERO testing?

With a constant schedule to meet there is just not a good reason to believe any programmer power will be pointed at those issues, the focus will ALWAYS be on pushing the next paycheck out the door.

I get that people want to be fans and cheer and anyone who has a dissenting voice will be ripped apart but be real people. They are a game company, not feeding the poor of Calcutta so don't expect charity and just learn to live with the tables as they are, they are not going to get fixed soon.

 

[Franky]

FS are working ther a**es off, to get all those bugs fixed

and

"no drawbridge art in MM"

The "no drawbridge art in MM" exists since the "Williams Collection" - make your own picture how they work their asses off - they are selling the same sh*t twice, that's all, but there are still some fools following like lemmings and saying "thanx" for every bunch in the face. They are promising much when they need a few kickstarter-dollars - but as always - promising is not delivering - and because of that, the next kickstarters will look a bit different.

As Bob Marley once said:

You can fool some people sometimes. But you can't fool all the people all the time.

Edit: @Actionball - same thoughts at the same time

 

[stevesabol]

They are a game company, not feeding the poor of Calcutta so don't expect charity...

That's funny right there. Well played, sir. Spreading the Word of Pinball to the unwashed masses is not quite worthy of sainthood, but it should be!

 

[Actionball]

I can remember the day I realized that FS didn't give a damn. It was so shocking when I considered how great the WPHOF was at the time and contrasting the 'don't give a ****' attitude they had about it.

On the Williams Challenge mode that goes across all the tables I put up the first real WTF score, it was more than 3 times higher than the nearest challenger and stood untouched for about half a year. It was a 24 hour grind of playing, napping, playing and more playing.

One day I start getting random hate mail on my PS3 mail system calling me a cheater, insisting I had played with tilt off on all the tables. Got similar mail about my Whirlwind and Sorceror scores too. Ridiculous I thought, there is no way that tilt off play would count on the scoreboard right? Wrong. So I contact FS by email asking if possible could they at least add a filter to the score board or put a star by tainted scores. The tone deaf email they sent back was stunning.

"We don't think that playing with the tilt feature turned off presents any substantial advantage to a player and see no reason their scores are not equally valid"

F'n SRSLY? Had they ever even PLAYED this game called pinball?

I've never bothered trying to up my score on that mode because it would never carry any meaning. Pretty much abandoned the game completely that day.

Likely they had not coded any way for the game to report what the settings were and no way to update it, at least I hope they didn't really believe what they wrote. But either way they went from MY HERO'S! They saved pinball against the ravages of time! To just another code house pushing out paydays.

Deal with it kiddos, they will just break your heart more the longer you carry that torch. Enjoy what you get, don't let it ruin your life and don't scream at the people who want to present a real world perspective, you can be a fan and be critical too, they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Franky]

yes, unfortunately that's the way it is - people think they will really end up with perfect recreations and that tables are coming endlessly. Of what quality can a product be, coming every month for every device possible? - you don't need to be a genius to figure this one out. As i said before, they sell you the same sh*t twice - they don't even have the decency to fix their bugs. The "Williams Collection" arrived in 2009 (with quite a few bugs) and since today NO title update exists - THAT'S HOW THEY CARE.

But FarSide says "thank you" for the real pinball tables YOU buy THEM for their office. Now with a new TZ table, on to the next one, hmmm...maybe a "Star Trek" table would fit in nicely?


to quote their "begging-for-your-money-video":

"preservation of pinball"

- what a failure.

 

[Heretic]

Well for someone who got burned why did you stick your hand in the flame again....these guys are just focusing on a novelty money making scheme!

I wont let them make a mockery of the shiney ball!

Im with both of you show them for the evil they are!

*hyper venitlates*

It seems the only ones with any real issue got burned(and possibly unfairly) in the Past.

The holy bloody grail it isnt but uhhh nobody said it was.
P
i wouldnt be happy being burnt but heh you did do it again! Just like them! Wait.are you.......*aha!*

come on guys nobodys blind here, if you hate the product that much why did you buy it?

Edit just to sum up in context.

Like....chillout dragon dude...the peasants will revolt if and when needa be....doom n gloom on a brand new small but worthwhile project....that doesnt have a major publisher for backup anymore.

*pom poms*

gimmie F S

 

[Vercingetorix]

the amount of blind fanboy love is rampant in this poll and thread.... christ, people... farsight is a business out to earn money and are thus culpable for the content they sell... they are at the mercy of the market, and releasing buggy DLC and/or other issues will definitely have an affect on the market in toto.

Of course people want to be fans. This isn't a game company making some random shooter; this is pinball. Most of us are emotionally invested in pinball. And most of us understand that, if this project fails, it'll probably never happen again in a commercial product. And we've played enough digital pinball to know what a giant step forward this represents in quality over a hobbyist project.

You can sneer at everybody for being stupid and naive if you like, but I don't understand how anybody who cares enough about pinball to find himself here doesn't get why most people are rooting like hell for these guys to succeed and willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. This is it. If these guys fail, it's not like EA's going to walk through the door next year and take over.

 

[Franky]

why i bought it? just because i want to believe that things change.

 

[Heretic]

why i bought it? just because i want to believe that things change.

Come on man...clap if you believe in farsight...ya know ya wanna.

If your still unhappy by say xmas with any table ill denounce the thing.

I understand what your saying and where your coming from you seemto have fair issue, but then you should hear me swearing at the nudging system.

Im gonna just sit and wait, if worse comes to the worst ill have wasted money on a bad project and you guys coulda saved me alot of hassle

But i prefer to think of rockin out to tng for xmas....
From

 

[Franky]

@Vercingetorix

that's clear and THAT'S exactly the point - what bothers me most is how the handle this subject, how they handle pinball and fans.

Remember:

- all the pressure of delivering new tables all the time to every device is SELFMADE
- not fixing or responding to bugs is SELFMADE
- starting kickstarter after kickstarter instead of earning enough money with non-license tables first is SELFMADE
- running short of time to fix things is SELFMADE

all this makes it obviously clear that they don't want to "preserve pinball", that they don't want to handle this genre with care and patience - all they want is to make fast money on promises.

A GOOD and SERIOUS "preservation" ALWAYS takes time unless you don't want to. So how good can a preservation of two tables a month be?

 

[neilpinbot]

the amount of blind fanboy love is rampant in this poll and thread.... christ, people... farsight is a business out to earn money and are thus culpable for the content they sell... they are at the mercy of the market, and releasing buggy DLC and/or other issues will definitely have an affect on the market in toto.

I played MB for about an hour last night so already more than made my money back than if I was feeding a real table, Without (as far as I'm aware) encountering a single buggy.

**Assuming I could even find a real table where I live in the UK**

 

[Franky]

@Heretic

of course i too stay, wait, buy, but the pressure and high hopes are building constantly. all this polls "pick five", "pick three" ... are building the pressure on FarSide even more, because people start demanding and believing they get all these tables - and so it goes on and on - till no bugfree release is possible. there are (i think) 10 tables out now - non of them is bugfree - so WHEN should they fix them? instead more and more tables are coming.

 

[Heretic]

Cant argue with that man, i cant play blackhole myself atm. I guess ill see ya on the flip side either way*grins* this is a new addiction to me.....and the guys to me at least seem genuine i dont have blind faith but i guess ive got some...a heretic on faith....wish id satyed on the fence....lets play etc

@Heretic

of course i too stay, wait, buy, but the pressure and high hopes are building constantly. all this polls "pick five", "pick three" ... are building the pressure on FarSide even more, because people start demanding and believing they get all these tables - and so it goes on and on - till no bugfree release is possible. there are (i think) 10 tables out now - non of them is bugfree - so WHEN should they fix them? instead more and more tables are coming.

 

[Vercingetorix]

@Vercingetorix

that's clear and THAT'S exactly the point - what bothers me most is how the handle this subject, how they handle pinball and fans.

Remember:

- all the pressure of delivering new tables all the time to every device is SELFMADE
- not fixing or responding to bugs is SELFMADE
- starting kickstarter after kickstarter instead of earning enough money with non-license tables first is SELFMADE
- running short of time to fix things is SELFMADE

all this makes it obviously clear that they don't want to "preserve pinball", that they don't want to handle this genre with care and patience - all they want is to make fast money on promises.

A GOOD and SERIOUS "preservation" ALWAYS takes time unless you don't want to. So how good can a preservation of two tables a month be?

"Fast money"? You think people went into business making pinball simulations because they thought they could make "fast money"?? Come on. This is such a niche market that they can't even get on Steam. Nobody goes into a niche market like this because all they want to do is make "fast money."

In theory I agree with you about speed vs quality, but I suspect that there are a lot of business realities underlying what's going on. This project requires good programmers, and programmers cost a lot of money, every month. All their numbers are probably based on keeping DLC coming in every month from several platforms. The ball has to keep rolling or they can't pay their people.

If you want to see what a "GOOD and SERIOUS preservation" that takes all the time necessary and is unfettered by business realities (i.e., paying high-quality programmers) looks like, have a look at Visual Pinball. There's no comparison.

I guess it comes down to whether you'd rather see this done imperfectly or not done at all.

 

[Heretic]

That and a pom pom....wish i could express myself as cleanly....

 

[Jeff Strong]

'Losing faith' - sounds like some kind of melodramatic Madonna song from the 80's.

Ha, good call

C'mon people......we're talking about pinball tables that only cost a couple bucks a piece. I think it's a little extreme to talk about losing faith or to even get mad like some people because of delays or bugs.

Farsight is doing the best they can, and they've never undertaken a project this big, so let's cut them a bit more slack. Things WILL get smoother with time. They're doing an amazing thing by bringing us these great tables, and honestly I feel really quite spoiled to have them all at my fingertips on all these various devices.

 

[Franky]

@ Vercingetorix @ All

is Visual Pinball really that much better compared to TPA? i've never tried it.

 

[Heretic]

@ Vercingetorix @ All

is Visual Pinball really that much better compared to TPA? i've never tried it.

They do the best with the sometime woeful tools they have

Id recmmend anything by jpslas uncle willie or lord? Remus

Try out the creature im the black lagoon or something like genesis if your into older stuff

 

[Vercingetorix]

@ Vercingetorix @ All

is Visual Pinball really that much better compared to TPA? i've never tried it.

There are guys who put a tremendous amount of time into and do some really nice work in Visual Pinball. I have nothing negative to say about it at all. I've had a lot of fun playing with it over the years, for free, thanks to the work those guys put into it. But it's obviously a hobbyists' project, as you'd expect.

Anybody who likes pinball enough to be posting on this forum should spend an evening setting up VP. It will A) provide you with a lot of fun playing tables that you won't otherwise get to, and B) give you a new appreciation for how much difference something being a commercial product makes.