Multiple FX Pinball announcements today, plus first looks!

[Narc0lep5y]

Didn’t have frame rates turned on last night in afterburner because I usually use Steam’s. Of course this isn’t steam and I don’t think EGS has that feature so I couldn’t check that. I’ll do another check today and grab frame rates.


Edit - 113-120fps during game play. - Started at about 117 fps per Afterburner, but as gpu heated up it dropped 1 fps every 30 secs or so. Smooth with GSync though.

and 92-95ish fps on the menu. That's weird. I wonder if the fancy menu and game room customization is such a late add on that it's lacking optimization.

 

[Firefox2000]

Well what a mess, frame rate is all over the place and flipper lag, and that is only in 1080p res with no HDR, while on the same PC i can happily play PSFX3 at 4k with not one issues, so yeah Epic can have this for 12 month to see what happenes with it. lol

 

[dmil666]

I just downloaded the early version (took forever with DSL) tried it out. So far the flipper lag is so bad that it's nearly unplayable with a controller or keyboard. The main menu screen runs off the right side of my monitor in portrait mode and I don't see any way to adjust it. I can't see all of the tables, the top menu bar is cut off in the middle of the "H" in "SHOP", at least that what I think it says.
I tried setting the screen to windowed mode to see if that helped the performance, but it didn't.

Not real impressed so far.

 

[pinballmonster]

It will take zen at least a year to work out the kinks in FX and that's being very optimistic.

As a reference point, take a look at pinball party. The first iteration was unplayable and it took them 6 months to patch the original. Unfortunately, there are still significant problems, including flipper lag as well as cpu/gpu overheating. This despite the fact that all 14 tables are clearly a significant downgrade in resolution compared to their fx3 counterparts.

FX tables are much higher resolution with RT requiring far more cpu/gpu power. If zen can't get low res pinball party tables working properly six months after release, it's a fair bet they're unlikely to get the far more processor intensive FX working properly 6 months after release.

I think they can get the steam version of FX working properly, likely a few months after it's ported over, I'd bet on six months or so, meaning late summer, early fall of 2023 before it's working properly.

This is all assuming zen can get FX working properly for console release which is a huge problem as they are targeting summer 2022 for launch which is just a few months off.

Zen is looking at a near 2 year drought in revenue with no new tables out of beta stage for PC and console. They have apple and epic money to tide them over for a bit but their inability to produce functional tables on the unreal engine is a very bad sign.

 

[Crazy Newt]

Having similar experiences as others have been reporting. Mostly playing Indy, but I also played a few games of the free Mummy game with similar results.

Serious lag with any frame rate syncing, either from the game's settings or through the Nvidia control panel. I have a 144Hz 2560x1440 G-Sync monitor and an RTX 2080 Super video card using the latest non-beta drivers. Normally, I can easily reach >120 FPS with FX3, so I lock the maximum FPS to 120 through the Nvidia control panel for the game. I can't seem to do that with the new Unreal engine, as I'm seeing about 112-119 FPS. But, as has been mentioned, the FPS jumps all over the place for me, as some of the frames can drop to the mid 60Hz range. Locking at 60Hz still sees a lot of frames dropping to ~45 FPS. This seems like some sort of poor optimization or other issue with the game. I will try borderless windows mode to see if that helps, as has been suggested.

Turning off vsync everywhere, or setting FAST mode in the Nvidia control panel, sees much better results with regards to input lag. I also set Low Latency Mode to on in the Nvidia control panel.

I can try borderless windows mode and completely disable v-sync to get acceptable input lag, but I also noticed extremely high GPU utilization with this configuration. CPU is at 10-15%, and my video card vram is under 75% usage, but the GPU is huffing it and the fans are maxed out as it behaves more like a space heater than an graphics card.

 

[Crawley]

Yeah people are right about the huge draw on your hardware. I ran some GPU monitoring, booted up Pinball FX played a game of Indy, then Elden Ring after. A bit of a difference there.

Max Temp Pinball FX: 69 (mainly sticking around 68)
Max Temp Elden Ring: 55 (mainly fluctuating between 45-53)

Max Fan Speed(%) Pinball FX: 79/82 (mainly stick at that point)
Max Fan Speed(%) Elden Ring: 64/70 (mainly sticking at that point)

Max Fan Speed RPM Pinball FX: 1999 / 2123 (It's a bit all over the place but at the high end)
Max Fan Speed RPM Elden Ring: 1390 / 1618 (Again a bit all over but still close to that range)

Max GPU Usage Pinball FX: 100 (Stayed at 100 once I got in the app until I closed it)
Max GPU Usage Elden Ring: 60 (A bit all over the place, as low as 23 but mainly stayed in the 50s)

Every other stat in this app was pretty similar. I know its not an apples to apples comparison, since totally different games. But still shows Pinball FX is needing some serious hardware resources at the moment.

This is on a 3070 TI in a pretty well ventilated desktop case.

 

[Scared Stiff]

It will take zen at least a year to work out the kinks in FX and that's being very optimistic.

As a reference point, take a look at pinball party. The first iteration was unplayable and it took them 6 months to patch the original. Unfortunately, there are still significant problems, including flipper lag as well as cpu/gpu overheating. This despite the fact that all 14 tables are clearly a significant downgrade in resolution compared to their fx3 counterparts.

FX tables are much higher resolution with RT requiring far more cpu/gpu power. If zen can't get low res pinball party tables working properly six months after release, it's a fair bet they're unlikely to get the far more processor intensive FX working properly 6 months after release.

I haven’t seen any flipper lag or overheating with Pinball Party. But it is a heck of a resource hog space wise. The app is absolutely huge. And there are still a few bugs but mostly minor. When it launched it was horrible with crashing tables and menus that you could get in but not out of. It sounds like Zen has a bad habit of rolling out software before it’s ready.

 

[PinJimmy]

I like how the game looks but i dont think im buying every table again. Maybe some new ones that really stand out like the indiana jones one. About the physics im not so sure now. It feels the game has become to easy with the new pro physics. Keepin the ball alive is part of pinball but if thats not a challenge you quit playing tables cause your running out of time. Hope it will be balanced right. Maybe an option to use the classic zen physics without the need for power ups to choose from would be nice. Just like classic fx3. Will see what the future brings for the new pinball fx but for now there really isnt much reason to switch from fx3.

 

[Narc0lep5y]

Didn’t have frame rates turned on last night in afterburner because I usually use Steam’s. Of course this isn’t steam and I don’t think EGS has that feature so I couldn’t check that. I’ll do another check today and grab frame rates.


Edit - 113-120fps during game play. - Started at about 117 fps per Afterburner, but as gpu heated up it dropped 1 fps every 30 secs or so. Smooth with GSync though.

and 92-95ish fps on the menu. That's weird. I wonder if the fancy menu and game room customization is such a late add on that it's lacking optimization.

update - patch dropped a few hours ago. FPS seems to be locked at 60 fps on all screens now. GPU is still working harder than before, and that's totally RayTracing. Turned it off and temps dropped 10 degrees instantly and fans dropped back to normal.

Also, for those who have AFM and Noir as the free tables today, I had those yesterday and now have Sky Pirates and SW ESB as my free tables so there's tomorrow's tables for those who got Mummy on day 1.

edit - Sky Pirates voice actor = Quint from Jaws (and others). But it's totally throwing me off. Farewell and adieu to you fair skypirate ladies...\

oh and check the legal area under the main menu - pretty sure we knew it was happening but legal postings for Dreamworks Dragons, Trolls and KungFu Panda are in there so you know those are coming. There's also a special Disney Lucasfilm pinball FX credits section separate from the Zen credits section too. Notably absent is any credits for Marvel characters.

 

[dmil666]

I installed the patch and the flipper response has improved immensely. Free tables in today's rotation (4-1) are Sky Pirates & SW ESB, both play very nicely although I wish I could turn off the animations (B button doesn't do it). I'd never seen Sky Pirates before but I like it, it's fun to play. The SW table was never one of my favourites but it plays very well. Indy (I bought it) plays much better than it did but is still a bit laggy and is a drain monster for me.
The main menu screen is still partially off the screen on the right.

 

[pinballmonster]

For those who have bought tables, how does Williams/pro/arcade physics in FX compare to FX3?

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

For those who have bought tables, how does Williams/pro/arcade physics in FX compare to FX3?

The physics, known in FX3 as Classic Single Player (Arcade/Tournament), do not exist in this build, likely to keep a focus on Pro Physics tuning for all legacy tables that will be ported over. Compared to FX3, the apex point of the flippers is higher than that of Classic Arcade/Tournament, but lower than Power-up mode.

Indiana Jones was shown to have them running in Unreal, though, so this will likely be implemented at some point later. If they end up keeping the current physics on Classic for Williams, I'd like to see Simulation and Tournament options for game modes.

As for the Pro Physics themselves...they feel pretty good. On the originals, they feel different. No longer easy as it was in FX3 -- the game's changed for the most part, and I can do flipper tricks more reliably on older non-Williams games.

Personally I'm waiting for the Daily Rotation to cycle out -- I'm in no hurry to purchase everything all at once again, since I'm focusing on my Master List for recreations. Once it hits Steam, I'll be on the hunt for some scores.

 

[Tron]

First thoughts I like the UI with the small picture in picture showing the selected table but I don't like the virtual room idea.

Gameplay wise it runs better, post patch. The gpu still runs like the clappers though the fans no longer ramp up as hard as they did on day one. I do notice the ball appears to judder as it reaches the lower half of the playfield. No lag on the flippers.

For the time being I'm sticking with FX3, see how this pans out when it hits steam

 

[Crawley]

So after the patch went back and ran the GPU monitoring again while playing Indy:

Max Temp (Before Patch + Ray Tracing): 69 (mainly sticking around 68)
Max Temp (After Patch + Ray Tracing)): 65 (Sticking around 64/65)
Max Temp Dying Light 2 (Ray Tracing): 67 (Mainly 65/66)
Max Temp (After Patch: No Ray Tracing): 53 (Sticking around 52/53)
Max Temp Elden Ring (No Ray Tracing): 55 (mainly fluctuating between 45-53)


Max Fan Speed(%) (Before Patch + Ray Tracing): 79/82 (mainly stick at that point)
Max Fan Speed(%) (After Patch + Ray Tracing)): 76/80 (mainly sticking at that point)
Max Fan Speed(%) Dying Light 2 (Ray Tracing): 77 / 80 (fluctuating between 75/80 and 77/80)
Max Fan Speed(%) (After Patch: No Ray Tracing):65 / 70 (mainly sticking at that point)
Max Fan Speed(%) Elden Ring: 64/70 (mainly sticking at that point)


Max Fan Speed RPM (Before Patch + Ray Tracing): 1999 / 2123 (It's a bit all over the place but at the high end)
Max Fan Speed RPM (After Patch + Ray Tracing): 1886 / 2042 (A bit over the place but in that range)
Max Fan Speed RPM Dying Light 2 (Ray Tracing): 1899 / 2045 (A bit all over the place but in that range)
Max Fan Speed RPM (After Patch: No Ray Tracing): 1406 / 1635 (Typically a bit lower and as low as 1383 / 1609)
Max Fan Speed RPM Elden Ring: 1390 / 1618 (Again a bit all over but still close to that range)


Max GPU Usage (Before Patch + Ray Tracing): 100 (Stayed at 100 once I got in the app until I closed it)
Max GPU Usage (After Patch + Ray Tracing): 100 (But mainly sticking at 94/95)
Max GPU Usage Dying Light 2 (Ray Tracing On): 100 (Mainly 99 and 100 but sometimes dropping to 95)
Max GPU Usage (After Patch): (After Patch: No Ray Tracing): 46 (Mainly between 43-46)
Max GPU Usage Elden Ring: 60 (A bit all over the place, as low as 23 but mainly stayed in the 50s)


Should mention this is with Ray Tracing on, which is an intensive process.

But a bit of an improvement after the patch with it being a bit less power hungry.

Updated: Added GPU monitor info without ray tracing on. And added Elden Ring numbers, which also does not have Ray Tracing.

So shows ray tracing is a power hog - which it probably is like that for any game that has it enabled. Without ray tracing enabled there's a big drop in everything, fan speed, GPU temp, and usage. It matches closer with Elden Rings numbers which does not have ray tracing.

Updated 2: Added Dying Light 2 with Ray Tracing numbers. Can see with that option on the temp and other numbers are par for the course. With the latest patch Pinball FX is slightly less intensive. GPU Temperatures are more than fine. So I'd say this is about what to expect from most apps that run ray tracing. A nothing burger for concerns.

 

[dmil666]

First thoughts I like the UI with the small picture in picture showing the selected table but I don't like the virtual room idea.

Yeah, the virtual room stuff doesn't attract me at all, but I'm an old (I'm 67) and not in the target group of players. I suppose I should look at it and mess around with it, but I'll wait until the f@#$%$# main menu screen is fixed so that I can see all of it.

 

[pinballmonster]

The most interesting thing (to me) on the leaderboards was the Arcade mode leaderboards on the Williams packs. ToM had 4 players total on the arcade mode leaderboard, vs 38 in classic mode. AFM 6A, 53C. MM 5A, 47C. Indy was the biggest so far of the Williams titles with 10A, 67C.

Curse of the Mummy seems to be the most popular Zen Original at 10A/100C. I don't know if that 100 is a viewing cap or not. Every other Zen Original table was under 100 entries and there's no second page so I'm assuming for now it's not. Most of the older classics only have 20 or so entries which makes sense that the newer tables get the first plays and purchases. And Arcade physics isn't the thing for this crowd so far either.

...and my GPU is at 78 degrees now and I'm still in the menu. Just alt tabbing out to record leaderboard numbers. That's concerning for long play sessions. Definitely my biggest concern with this build so far.

The problem with pre-FX is that game physics is either too fast or too slow. With zen physics, game play is slow, predictable and often and sleep inducing, quite frankly, until you get to multi ball.

With arcade/williams physics, game play is unrealistically fast and far more difficult than actual pinball. I get bored with the former and frustrated with the latter.

In desktop, I used to play exclusively in arcade mode, but now playing the majority of the time with zen physics (which isn't very often), due to said frustration factor, but it's too easy by comparison. I can see why players have such a strong preference for zen physics, but I'm assuming most are seasoned players--can't they see right away how unrealistically easy it is?

I hope FX can introduce a more realistic physics model. It is admittedly really, really difficult. Even photo realistic CGI in films hasn't been achieved more than 3 decades after the release of the groundbreaking T2.

Also, I've been checking for vids on FX game play. On YT, view counts are extremely low for all such vids. Interest level in FX on EGS is very, very low.

 

[trash80]

Regarding the Williams tables in Pinball FX. The physics are somewhere in-between the 'standard' Zen physics and the Classic (Arcade) physics from FX3 Williams tables. Tables from Vol 1 - 3, like Medieval Madness and Attack from Mars, feel very similar (albeit slower) to the Classic Arcade (not Tournament) physics, while the tables from later volumes feel like a regression in the physics when compared to their FX3 counterpart. Overall, I suppose it is nice to have the Williams physics all be basically the same now, but in the process, some of the tables now feel neutered. I think many people that preferred the Classic Tournament mode will be disappointed as all the tables will now feel like easy mode.

Many of the Williams tables now have a distortion in the ROM emulation sound playback and table volume isn't leveled from one table to the next. And I'm afraid these emulation issues will remain with us for a very long time. Speaking of emulation, pretty much all the bugs in the FX3 version have carried over. There are also many other minor bugs and things (like the Water Animation playing on the ramp in Black Rose even with the extra Zen visuals turned off, etc.) that I attribute to oversight and the forced release to meet the March deadline.

The new physics on the Zen Originals is a mixed bag. It really depends on the vintage of the table. The three new tables feel pretty good since they were designed with these physics in mind, but they are still nothing like playing the Williams physics. The table slope is still too low, and the widebody nature of these tables creates quite slow and horizontal gameplay that is still guaranteed to generate hour+ long ball times. The older Zen originals just feel weird overall, and while some do work better than others, there will still be mainly two camps of users; Zen Original fans and Williams fans, and I don't think the "Pro Physics" is going to convert many people.

For those hoping that physics and playability aspects change in the future, don't get your hopes up. The current physics parameters are here to stay since Zen doesn't want numerous iterations of physics like with what happened in FX3.

The menus and lobby are not ready for primetime. There is extreme CPU and GPU usage while in the lobby, and filters reset after each table is played. Hopefully, these things get worked out soon.

Graphics. Overall, the game rendering is crisper. With RT on it certainly looks better than FX3. With it off, it is just a darker (adjust the gamma) version of FX3. HDR doesn't seem to work correctly yet, so I won't comment on that.

Flipper lag. I haven't experienced any with V-Sync on, or off, while using an Xbox One controller.

If you're on the fence and don't hate Epic, maybe buy $10 in tickets (no comment as that is another discussion) and buy your favorite Williams tables and see for yourself. Otherwise, I think waiting until this releases on Steam is probably the best course of action for most of us.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Regarding the Williams tables in Pinball FX. The physics are somewhere in-between the 'standard' Zen physics and the Classic (Arcade) physics from FX3 Williams tables. Tables from Vol 1 - 3, like Medieval Madness and Attack from Mars, feel very similar to the old FX3 Classic Arcade physics, while the tables from later volumes feel like a regression in the physics when compared to their FX3 counterpart. Overall, I suppose it is nice to have the Williams physics all be basically the same now, but in the process, some of the tables now feel neutered. I think many people that preferred the Classic Tournament mode will be disappointed as all the tables will now feel like easy mode.

Again, something's telling me they're not quite ready to unleash, given what was shown on S2E2 of Zen's Pinball Show. I'd appreciate seeing a Simulation and Tournament option for Classic on the Williams tables in the future.

FX3 vs S2E2 vs FX 0.1.0:

Many of the Williams tables now have a distortion in the ROM emulation sound playback and table volume isn't leveled from one table to the next. And I'm afraid these issues with remain with us for a very long time. Speaking of emulation, pretty much all the bugs in the FX3 version have carried over. And there are also many other minor bugs and things (like the Water Animation playing on the ramp in Black Rose even with the extra Zen visuals turned off) that I attribute to oversight and the forced release to meet the March deadline.

Not quite all issues, I created a Master List and am modifying it based on the new engine. That being said, audio issues on the ROM need to be addressed pronto -- it's not ready for primetime. Major drawback compared to FX3.

 

[trash80]

Again, something's telling me they're not quite ready to unleash, given what was shown on S2E2 of Zen's Pinball Show. I'd appreciate seeing a Simulation and Tournament option for Classic on the Williams tables in the future.

FX3 vs S2E2 vs FX 0.1.0:

S2E2 isn't what you think it is.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

S2E2 isn't what you think it is.

Oh I know exactly what it is, and I don't need to get my eyes checked.

Explain to me why the flipper angles in their Pinball Show are exactly like how they are in FX3, then? And not just in S2E2, but also in S2E1 when they showcased Indy?

Explain to me, also, why we haven't seen the new flipper physics on Volumes 1-3 on FX3, yet they exist on the tables found in the Arcade1UP Williams cabinets?

There's a Simulation setup in the code, and you know it. We're likely not going to see it until later on down the line. They don't call it the "Ultimate Pinball Universe" for nothing.

One major feature in Early Access at a time, and I'm willing to bet they're wanting feedback on the current Pro Physics model before easing back into Simulation/Tournament modes.