[REPORT] Bug Reporting / Issues

[SilverBalls]

Hi Robert
First before I mention my problem agqain, don't let my issue put anyone else off trying this. This is someone particular to my screen setup (maybe cables) and not the camera mod.

I tried a few things as you suggested but unfortunately no luck with getting the playfield playing smoothly when the backglass is 'on top'. I tried switching the ports for the screen and made different screens primary, etc.. I also tried various scaling options and overriding game stuff, etc.

As my TV also has a VGA port, I thought it was worth trying to connect the playfield to this. I had to use an VGA-DVI adapter to plug it into the graphics cards DVI. Still got the same behaviour unfortunately.

My graphics card has 2 DVI ports and one mini-HDMI so I thought is is worth trying a cable from this mini-HDMI to the TV's HDMI. As I don't have one and couldn't find one in the shops here, I ordered one from Amazon but upto 3 weeks to be delivered!

Like I mentioned before I can succusessfully use 2 screens with both the playfield and backglass showing, with completely smooth gameplay and smooth camera flyby. However the only way I can achieve this, is by bringing TPA to the front so it has priority over the backglass. This is the case with all configurations and all settings I have tried.

Here are two pictures to clearly illiustrate what I mean (please ignore the off-centred backglass - I was just experimenting ):

This plays completely smooth, and the camera flyby is smooth too

This plays very stuttery with slicing, and the camera flyby is slicing too.

Despite the small annoyance I am in fact completely happy with how this works for me - I just need to have TPA on top of the backglass as shown in the first photo above, allowing the overlapping part of the TPA playfield to be on top of the lower part of the backglass, so this is no big deal. I can see the backglass and it changes when I load a new table. I have the DMD on the other screen. I have perfect camera angles. This is 10 times better than Farsight's default offering.

 

[NoEx]

Thanks Robert. That worked great!
P.S. For anyone running into the confusion I had: I noticed that after I manually entered the "2200" into that second (lower) box (BackBuffer Height), afterwards when I went back into the PBA Config utility it showed 1080 in that second box. So I found the trick is to just type in 2200 and don't go back in to look at it.

Yes! PBA Config utility doesn't save this value correctly because it's not in the list, this is a known issue, just type 2200 manually and don't go back in the utility.

I get a lot of Playfield stutter from the ball when playing and also when the camera is doing a fly-by. It seems that the Playfield and Backglass display are 'fighting' each other to be 'on top'.

HOWEVER if I Alt-tab to the Playfield Window, this makes the playfield play very smooth. I can still see the backglass, but the portion of TPA on the backglass moniotr is covering all of the lower portion of the backglass and not just the DMD cut-out. If I Alt-tab back to the backglass so I can only see the DMD in the cut-out, then the playfield is stuttery again

I experienced with dozens of nVidia scaling settings for Aspect ratio, scaling on display / GPU, overriding the scaling mode set by games and programs, etc. but still get the issue. I have also tried Aero on/off, VSync, etc.

Any ideas appreciated.

This is funny because i got this problem too on my cab but not on my coding computer, we've talked about it with Robert and we've came to the conclusion that it was caused by the particular setup of my cab, i got 3 monitors and 2 video cards, the 1st one is connected to the playfield monitor and the other is connected to the dmd and backglass monitor, we thought that these stuttering were caused by the playfield being stretched over 2 different monitors connected to 2 different video cards, some kind of sync issue or something. But if you have this issue too, with everything connected to an unique video card, the problem is different. I'll check this, if the problem disappears when TPA is on top of the backglass maybe it's just caused by the method i use to display the backglass image over the playfield...

First many thanks for the amazing work NoEx and Robert!

(1) When running in offline mode, the Backglass does not display. If you Alt-Tab as well you cannot see the backglass. As soon as I go online and run the mod with TPA the backglass shows.
I don't have internet on my cabinet, so the way I tested it was with an internet connection was by running a long internet cable across to the cabinet.

Thanks for you feedback, in fact it's been ages since i've started the mod in offline mode, and i thought cabinet mode would work as well in offline mode so i didn't tested it, but apparently it doesn't i'll fix it asap.

 

[SilverBalls]

But if you have this issue too, with everything connected to an unique video card, the problem is different. I'll check this, if the problem disappears when TPA is on top of the backglass maybe it's just caused by the method i use to display the backglass image over the playfield...
.

Thanks for the info NoEx. Based on what you said I just did a test with TPA spanning the 2 screens in the same way but this time using the CustomDesktopLogo program that Robert originally used. I get the same stuttering/slicing with that too, but as soon as I close it, smooth again. I tried moving the Logo to the top left of the backgkass monitor so that it did not appear to overlay TPA and it still stuttered/sliced. I guess the logo overlays the who screen.

 

[Robert Misner]

I have a question, i tried NoEx mod as soon as it was released, (finaly cab support )
But when i run the mod the framerate drops in tpa.
This must be becouse of my minimal cpu and gpu, so i left it alone hoping farsight would release cab support soon..
Now i see you guys post enthusiastic, and i realy want to get this working, my cab has the blackglass and it has bin useless for more than 2 years now

Must i invest in a new pc and videocard?

Here is what i have running now:

64bit Windows 7
AMD Dual core 2800mhz
4 gig memory
GeForce GT 640 (2g mem)

Tpa in DX11 medium settings runs perfect.

Playfield is 1080x1920

Cheers, greet to see this progress

The overhead from the camera mod is pretty minimal your video card is better then mine rams ok but your cpu might be the culprit.
check your tpa configuration settings and set MSAA samples to 1 and MSAA quality to 0 first and try that if it runs smooth without MSAA I'd advice raising the backbuffer values higher vs using AA..game looks better that way.

 

[Robert Misner]

Thanks for the info NoEx. Based on what you said I just did a test with TPA spanning the 2 screens in the same way but this time using the CustomDesktopLogo program that Robert originally used. I get the same stuttering/slicing with that too, but as soon as I close it, smooth again. I tried moving the Logo to the top left of the backgkass monitor so that it did not appear to overlay TPA and it still stuttered/sliced. I guess the logo overlays the who screen.

i was just gonna suggest that. darn

your running windows 7 64bit right? aero on and off causes issues with certain things i recall but i can't remember what(use to do that for pvr software)

i got an other idea just to try and see if its related to the tv playfield itself
can you setup your system so the backglass is monitor one and shows the playfield and the playfield monitor is display 2 and acts as the backglass and run it and see if the studdering follows the playfield or what it does?

you can setup custom timing options in your advanced display settings for windows.
My palyfield is 60hz and my backglass monitor/tv says its using 59hz (nvidia says they're both 60hz) i'd be tempted to try adjusting those to and see what happens

 

[Robert Misner]

silver and NoEx you both have 600 series GPU's right?
can you guys check out this article about nvidia suround mode..might lead to something
http://www.cclonline.com/article/1193/Guide/Graphics-Cards/Configuring-Multiple-Monitors-NVIDIA-Surround-Single-GPU-/

 

[Robert Misner]

silverballs could you try using the logo utility and do a test for me?
load up a table backglass but drag and move it over so its all on the playfield so its on the primary monitor only..exit and load it again if needed.
when its on the main window does the playfield still show tearing or only when you move it off the playfield to the secondary display? I wonder if the overlay was tied to the display 1 timing if it won't eliminate the timing issue

 

[Pantah010]

The overhead from the camera mod is pretty minimal your video card is better then mine rams ok but your cpu might be the culprit.
check your tpa configuration settings and set MSAA samples to 1 and MSAA quality to 0 first and try that if it runs smooth without MSAA I'd advice raising the backbuffer values higher vs using AA..game looks better that way.

Ok here is my report, when i start the mod i can't press start untill i click on the game it self (like the window is out focus and wont reconise inputs if its not selected)
I have set "auto hide hud when press start", but it wont auto hide
I have set everything to max preformance in windows and nvidia, it still runs at 10fps
Without the mod it runs 60fps..

It looks so awesome the backglass and playfield view!!!

 

[SilverBalls]

Fixed!

silverballs could you try using the logo utility and do a test for me?
load up a table backglass but drag and move it over so its all on the playfield so its on the primary monitor only..exit and load it again if needed.
when its on the main window does the playfield still show tearing or only when you move it off the playfield to the secondary display? I wonder if the overlay was tied to the display 1 timing if it won't eliminate the timing issue

Thanks again Robert for the many suggestions. Much appreciated. The issue persisted with everything I tried. Even when I dragged TPA to the playfield only (in windowed mode) and switch a logo on, it stuttered and teared, but with the logo on it was smooth.

However it is now FINALLY working smoothly . And the reason is bloody Aero like you mentioned before. I can't believe it. Let me explain.

For my cabinet I used to have a few services disabled. Unecessary services such as Desktop Composition, Themes, etc. This is because when I built my cabinet in 2011 it was necessary to get smooth gameplay under XP, and when I installed Windows 7 I just switched off these things that I never use.

However a few months ago whilst using Unity3D Pinball I was getting tearing when using the cabinet mode. At the time I read that switching on Destktop Composition/Aero can solve the problem. Therefore I switched on the service 'uxsms' as the following page explains:

http://ccm.net/faq/30281-how-to-rapidly-enable-or-disable-aero-under-windows-7

This solved my Unity3D tearing problems. If I stop the service I get tearing. This led me to believe I had Aero switched on, so when you suggested it before I made sure the service was running and it was. Unity3D was also playing smoothly which led me to believe it was switched on.

After trying all your suggestions, I read back through your posts and saw the Aero thing again. After looking at some windows themes I actually saw there are Aero themes (tbh I never use them and stick with the classic look). I thought what the hell, let's switch one on just in case - and everything is super smooth!

I don't know why just enabling the service for Unity3D Pinball fixed that but not for TPA. Maybe it has something to do with having the applications overlapping each other, and by actually having an Aero theme enabled transparency is handled differently or something? Anyway I am over the moon!

It might be worth adding something to your install guide to say if you experiencing tearing or stuttering actually select an Aero theme. Just switching on the above service is not enough - you must actually select an Aero theme.

Thanks again to you and NoEx for so much of time helping me to resolve this. It will be interesting to hear if this also fixes it for NoEx.

 

[SilverBalls]

Ok here is my report, when i start the mod i can't press start untill i click on the game it self (like the window is out focus and wont reconise inputs if its not selected)
I have set "auto hide hud when press start", but it wont auto hide
I have set everything to max preformance in windows and nvidia, it still runs at 10fps
Without the mod it runs 60fps..

It looks so awesome the backglass and playfield view!!!

Agree it does look awesome!

As you are trying to use cabinet mode you do not want to AutoHideHUD, so that setting is most likely ignored by the camera mod in cabinet mode (that is because you want the HUD to still appear on your second monitor).

For the focus thing I am not sure what that is, but maybe someone else can comment.

 

[Robert Misner]

Silverballs I'm glad you figured that out..to clarify
an additional note of the following is accurate?:

In windows 7, please ensure your using an Aero theme and you haven't manually disabled any services related to themes when testing your setup.
Some users have reported tearing when these services were off and a basic theme was used.

 

[Robert Misner]

Ok here is my report, when i start the mod i can't press start untill i click on the game it self (like the window is out focus and wont reconise inputs if its not selected)
I have set "auto hide hud when press start", but it wont auto hide
I have set everything to max preformance in windows and nvidia, it still runs at 10fps
Without the mod it runs 60fps..

It looks so awesome the backglass and playfield view!!!

Thats a really significant drop in performance
are you runnign anykind of screen capturing or recording utility that has to run in the forground?

can you try a couple things for me?

1. what is your playfield monitor and backglass monitor resolution?
are they both on the same video card?
do you have vsync turned on? for the game in a custom game profile?(turn it off for now)

what resolution are you running the back buffer at?
try typing these custom ones in the tpa
horizon backbuffer 864
vertical backbuffer 1760
msaa 1
msaa quality 0
ball brigten on
and windowed


heres my settings.ini if you want to compaire
as well just rename the backglass folder to backglass1 to see if the loading of the pic is whats slowing things down.

[Settings]

; Auto launch the game when the mod starts.
LaunchGame=1

; Path to the game executable.
GamePath=C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\PinballArcade\PinballArcade11.exe

; Overlay is hidden when the game starts.
StartHidden=1

; Opacity of the overlay (0 -> 1.0 / 0.1 range).
Opacity=1.0

; Enable/disable the mod.
FreeCameraMode=1

; Auto hide the ingame HUD when you click START button.
AutoHideHUD=0

; The cam values are applied to the sliders when you click START button, otherwise sliders value are applied to the cam.
AutoCamToSliders=1

; Check if a *.cam file exists for the current table and automatically loads it.
AutoLoadCamFile=1

; Enable/disable Hotkeys.
HotKeys=0

; The key (constant) defined in the game to manually hide the ingame HUD (default key: H)
; Keyboard scan code constants list: http://goo.gl/rvrMS9
; Take the hex value in the table (0x48) and convert it to an integer (72);
HideHUDKey=72

[Cabinet]

; Enable cabinet mode, dual monitor display with backglass & DMD.
CabinetMode=1

; Backglass monitor number (as displayed in Windows/Nvidia/Ati display settings).
MonitorNbr=2

; Game window stretching value (to the second monitor) in pixels.
WindowStretch=293

; Backglass image horizontal shifting value.
BackglassShift=0

; Playfield window vertical shifting value.
PlayfieldShift=0

; ############################# HOTKEYS NOTE ###############################
; # For a complete list of usable keys, please visit: http://goo.gl/0blPF6 #
; # NumLock key should be ON to use NumPad keys. #
; # 'PageUp' key is also known as 'Prior' for backwards compatibility. #
; # 'PageDown' key is also known as 'Next' for backwards compatibility. #
; ##########################################################################

[HotKeys]

HideShowOverlay=NumPad0
XTranslation+=Multiply
XTranslation-=Divide
YTranslation+=Home
YTranslation-=End
ZTranslation+=Insert
ZTranslation-=Delete
XRotation+=PageUp
XRotation-=PageDown
YRotation+=Numpad6
YRotation-=Numpad4
ZRotation+=NumPad1
ZRotation-=NumPad3
FOV+=NumPad5
FOV-=NumPad2
PFShift+=Subtract
PFShift-=Add
BGShift+=Numpad9
BGShift-=Numpad7
CamSpeed+=UP
CamSpeed-=Down
SetCamView1=F1
SetCamView2=F2
SetCamView3=F3
CycleViews=C

 

[SilverBalls]

Silverballs I'm glad you figured that out..to clarify
an additional note of the following is accurate?:

In windows 7, please ensure your using an Aero theme and you haven't manually disabled any services related to themes when testing your setup.
Some users have reported tearing when these services were off and a basic theme was used.

Sounds good. Maybe just say you only need to do it, if you experience stuttering/tearing as it may not be needed for everyone.
Eg:

"If you experience stuttering or tearing when playing under Windows 7 (and maybe later versions), try enabling an Aero theme and ensure you haven't manually disabled any services related to themes such as Desktop Composition. This is because some users have reported tearing when these services were off and also when not using an aero theme."

Played a few tables today and it makes a world of difference. The backgkass look great and I can see a lot of work went into them to get the transparent sections cut out.

 

[Pantah010]

Thank you verry mutch!, its working now, it was the areo theme thing!
I also had areo disabled asuming it would give a preformance boost..

I'm verry happy to finaly see a better playfield view, and have the backglass enabled, THANX guys!!

My specs (for what its worth, problem solved already)
AMD 2800mhz dual core
4 gig memory
Geforce GT 640
Playfield 40" 1080x1920
Backglass 27" 1280x720
Both screens same videocard
Windows 7 64bit

ps. the autohide hud also solved the focused window issue

 

[Robert Misner]

glad it helped you as well Pantah010..looks like its gonna be one of those " first things to check" things.

 

[SilverBalls]

Nice one Pantah010!

 

[NoEx]

Fixed it for me too, thanks! NEVER DISABLE AERO

 

[SilverBalls]

Fixed it for me too, thanks! NEVER DISABLE AERO

lol

 

[Pmarak]

it looks like you have some kind of overscan going on..the backglass monitor looks to be displaying about 1185x965 from whats showing..its not 1600x1200
is it possible your display doesn't support that resolution..try setting your backglass to something else close
the playfield are you using pc resolution or tv? hdmi?

can you take picture of the adjust desktop size and position screens
and setup multiple displays..your monitor doesn't look centered either.
my scaling options say aspect ratio , scaling on display, and override the scaling mode set by games and programs checked

FINALLY got this working and thought I'd bring my solution forward in case someone else has a similar issue.
Sorry for being long winded but am relieved to get this resolved (it was gonna eat at me until I got it solved).

I have been trying to figure out for days what was causing my screen to shift. Tried all I could think of. Finally gave up and decided to fire up my install of Visual Pinball for break.
Odd...its not coming up in the correct resolution? OK, I haven't played it since I upgraded from Windows 7 64 to Windows 10 64 but all should still be the same right?
I look at the video options within the table editor and its says my max available resolution is 1536x864 ???
WTH.. My desktop is set to 1920x1080. A 1920x1080 image fits the screen correctly. Nvidia Control Panel lists it correctly, I check the sizing tab out, all is correct. WTH ??

I turn to Google and search 1536x864 and lo and behold... it turns out than starting with Windows 8.1 ( I'm running Windows 10 64bit) the following can happen...

"Windows 8.1 enables by default a display scaling to 125% to enlarge icons for better readability (useful for tiny laptop screens with crazy high resolutions) which is why Windows thinks it's at its native resolution of 1080. However, GeForce Experience is unaware of this change and displays the resolution at something lower to adapt to the scaling. The simple solution is to go back to the screen resolution display change from right clicking on your desktop and select "Make Text and Other items smaller or larger" and set the scale from 125% to 100%"

So to reset this scaling I had to..
1) right click on the desktop and select display settings, then advanced settings
2) select "advanced sizing of text and other items"
3) select the "set a custom scaling level" link from within the Change Size of Items section
4) select 100% (default was 125%)
5) log out and back in to Windows

Once I did this VP saw my resolutions correctly and better yet PA and the mods NoEx and Robert have provided worked correctly !
Thanks again guys for the work you've put into this. It's stellar, and greatly appreciated.

 

[Robert Misner]

thats great Pmarak! never thought about the scaling of text affecting things. thanks for sharing your findings, Both this and Aero are gonna be easy things to check for everyone else now that we know where to look.