Season 3 pack removed from all platforms!

[Dream Demon]

So you're saying Scared Stiff didn't sell well then?

You're not listening.

They came out and said that the 2nd game within all packs were "Free" and "like a bonus"... However, later on when asked about why no EM tables have come out for so long, they said "Because our EM tables have sold poorly". I'd say that's a contradiction.

So, basically they either lied about the tables being "Free", which most TPA would agree on, or some within don't know left from right with what's going on.

You add to that the Xbox mess, the Wii mess, the Xbox1 "We have a publisher"/"We're looking for a publisher", the constant delays with platform releases, the endless bugs... I mean, the list goes on and on and on. That's what I mean when I say "Unorganized". Now, I've spoken to quite a few Farsight employees through messaging and E-mails and have had many back and fourths with them. I'm not gonna pile up on them and say negative crap every chance I get like some, but when I do say things, I state facts. You simply cannot dispute anything I've said thus far. Again, I continue to support them with money because I believe in what they're doing, but I'm also in my right as a paying customer to give them healthy criticism (Which they continually ask for from customers). I want them to succeed, and I want them to be better. They can't do either if everyone just says "You're the best, Farsight, you can do no wrong!" (When they are surrounded by endless problems from every corner)

What bothers me the most, and again, we've had healthy debates on this, is the constant "It's Sony's Fault"/"It's Apple's Fault"/"It's (Fill in the blank) Fault." I'm sorry, but these third parties have a respectable track record, backed up by mammoth sales. So, I find it very hard to believe that every issue that ever comes up is someone else's fault. I think the company needs more staff, esp a better PR staff that can actually keep track of what's said, past and present.

Hey, you don't have to listen to me, just check the Forum or/and the Facebook page for the hundreds upon hundreds of ever growing complaints from paying customers. If they don't start getting these issues shored up, they're gonna be selling "Orbals II" instead of great Pinball tables.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

You're not listening.

They came out and said that the 2nd game within all packs were "Free" and "like a bonus"... However, later on when asked about why no EM tables have come out for so long, they said "Because our EM tables have sold poorly". I'd say that's a contradiction.

So, basically they either lied about the tables being "Free", which most TPA would agree on, or some within don't know left from right with what's going on.

Not at all. Tables used to be sold in 2-packs, so they could take an EM and pair it with a popular SS or DMD table, which would result in the EM being "carried" by the stronger-selling table. Hence why Big Shot was paired with Scared Stiff, and Central Park with Cactus Canyon. (And there was a lot of kvetching about people being "forced" to buy the EMs with the other tables even then.) But now that tables are sold individually, an EM would have to stand on its own. If FarSight believes EMs are poor sellers, then it is actually very consistent for FarSight to stop producing EMs.

They can't do either if everyone just says "You're the best, Farsight, you can do no wrong!" (When they are surrounded by endless problems from every corner)

TPA has been out for 2 years on iOS and Android. This forum did have a "white knight" problem in the beginning, but at this point, even the most partisan defenders of FarSight have learned to temper their expectations. But there is nuance, it is entirely possible to mostly love a game yet still hate certain aspects of it. This seems to be lost on certain elements of the Facebook crowd, for whom you must hate the game and everything connected to it completely or else you're a deluded sheep.

For a demonstration of people who really like TPA, yet think pulling Season Pack 3 from non-Apple platforms was a boneheaded move PR-wise on FarSight's part, listen to TPA Barcade Podcast #5 when it comes out in a few days.

Hey, you don't have to listen to me, just check the Forum or/and the Facebook page for the hundreds upon hundreds of ever growing complaints from paying customers. If they don't start getting these issues shored up, they're gonna be selling "Orbals II" instead of great Pinball tables.

TPA is on its 23rd DLC. If FarSight's issues were going to do them in, it would have happened by now. You have to consider that a huge fraction of TPA's playerbase never looks at the Facebook page, never looks at this forum, and is probably blissfully unaware of any issues that don't affect them personally. Issues with physics, lighting, etc., that drive us nuts probably go unnoticed by the majority, because they've never played the real table (or perhaps never played any real table!) and so they don't notice the error. Does this make the error excusable? No. Does the error still need to be fixed? Yes. But the reactions some people have, especially on the Facebook page, over a minor error in a game are so far out of proportion you'd have thought a FarSight employee had come to their houses and murdered their first-born. (And this is where you get the "shut up, you spoiled brat" reaction from some of us [even if we would have agreed with them had they been more civil about it], which provokes the white-knight accusations from them, and so on in a vicious circle.)

 

[Mick Morry]

Not at all. Tables used to be sold in 2-packs, so they could take an EM and pair it with a popular SS or DMD table, which would result in the EM being "carried" by the stronger-selling table. Hence why Big Shot was paired with Scared Stiff, and Central Park with Cactus Canyon. (And there was a lot of kvetching about people being "forced" to buy the EMs with the other tables even then.) But now that tables are sold individually, an EM would have to stand on its own. If FarSight believes EMs are poor sellers, then it is actually very consistent for FarSight to stop producing EMs.


TPA has been out for 2 years on iOS and Android. This forum did have a "white knight" problem in the beginning, but at this point, even the most partisan defenders of FarSight have learned to temper their expectations. But there is nuance, it is entirely possible to mostly love a game yet still hate certain aspects of it. This seems to be lost on certain elements of the Facebook crowd, for whom you must hate the game and everything connected to it completely or else you're a deluded sheep.

For a demonstration of people who really like TPA, yet think pulling Season Pack 3 from non-Apple platforms was a boneheaded move PR-wise on FarSight's part, listen to TPA Barcade Podcast #5 when it comes out in a few days.


TPA is on its 23rd DLC. If FarSight's issues were going to do them in, it would have happened by now. You have to consider that a huge fraction of TPA's playerbase never looks at the Facebook page, never looks at this forum, and is probably blissfully unaware of any issues that don't affect them personally. Issues with physics, lighting, etc., that drive us nuts probably go unnoticed by the majority, because they've never played the real table (or perhaps never played any real table!) and so they don't notice the error. Does this make the error excusable? No. Does the error still need to be fixed? Yes. But the reactions some people have, especially on the Facebook page, over a minor error in a game are so far out of proportion you'd have thought a FarSight employee had come to their houses and murdered their first-born. (And this is where you get the "shut up, you spoiled brat" reaction from some of us [even if we would have agreed with them had they been more civil about it], which provokes the white-knight accusations from them, and so on in a vicious circle.)

Exactly. Well said Sean!

 

[brakel]

My only problem with losing the season pass is I might end up skipping tables again. During season 1 I only bought tables on iOS where the theme interested me so I had only bought about 7 tables total. I completely ignored Taxi when it 1st came out beacuse it didn't look worth it to me. Then it was offered as free table of the month and it ended up being one of my favorites.

When the season passes were released I ended up buying both season 1 and 2 on android just to take advantage of the savings, and I realized I missed out on a lot of great playing tables because I was buying them one buy one. For season 3 I just bought the season outright because I liked having new tables regardless of the theme every month.

Its just a psychological thing, I'm just more likely to pay a larger sum upfront, than to have to convince myself every month "is this table really worth my money right now". I'm not saying the tables are overpriced, its just makes the purchase an option rather than a given. If the season passes were never released I'd probably only own 12 or so tables out of the bunch, and I can tell you right now I have many more favorites than that in TPAs library. Farsight got more money out of me than they were likely to because of those season passes.

That's a really odd problem.

 

[netizen]

That's a really odd problem.

a loss lingers and grows in your mind, becoming larger in your history than it was when you first felt it. Whenever this clinging to the past becomes a factor in making decisions about your future, you run the risk of being derailed by the sunk cost fallacy.

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/03/25/the-sunk-cost-fallacy/

 

[spoonman]

We just recorded a new podcast and talk a bit about this topic. I wish I could say we did as good a job discussing all the angles you guys are bringing up, but we tried. Should be up in a few days time for listening. Spoiler alert...we're all pretty much in agreement with what's being said here.

Thanks man. I enjoyed the last interview you and Jeff had done and look forward to this!

My only problem with losing the season pass is I might end up skipping tables again. During season 1 I only bought tables on iOS where the theme interested me so I had only bought about 7 tables total. I completely ignored Taxi when it 1st came out beacuse it didn't look worth it to me. Then it was offered as free table of the month and it ended up being one of my favorites.

When the season passes were released I ended up buying both season 1 and 2 on android just to take advantage of the savings, and I realized I missed out on a lot of great playing tables because I was buying them one buy one. For season 3 I just bought the season outright because I liked having new tables regardless of the theme every month.

Its just a psychological thing, I'm just more likely to pay a larger sum upfront, than to have to convince myself every month "is this table really worth my money right now". I'm not saying the tables are overpriced, its just makes the purchase an option rather than a given. If the season passes were never released I'd probably only own 12 or so tables out of the bunch, and I can tell you right now I have many more favorites than that in TPAs library. Farsight got more money out of me than they were likely to because of those season passes.

I understand what you're saying and I know some of my other friends will do the same. They won't buy every table like some of us hardcore pinheads might do. One of my friends doesn't like older, non DMD machines, but he still bought the Season 2 pack for the deal.

Others, like you mentioned, just want to pay once and not have to bother with paying $5 here and there...

I'm sure Farsight would much rather have everyone's funds in advance as well.

 

[brakel]

Thanks man. I enjoyed the last interview you and Jeff had done and look forward to this!




I understand what you're saying and I know some of my other friends will do the same. They won't buy every table like some of us hardcore pinheads might do. One of my friends doesn't like older, non DMD machines, but he still bought the Season 2 pack for the deal.

Others, like you mentioned, just want to pay once and not have to bother with paying $5 here and there...

I'm sure Farsight would much rather have everyone's funds in advance as well.

Well obviously they wouldn't rather have a bunch of funds in advance because they're choosing to not allow the rest of us to buy the season pass. Apparently they'd rather not be paid in advance.

 

[Heretic]

aome of you are trueky foolish, or maybe its a case of being spolit brats

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Easy Heretic...this is the longest a "controversial" thread has gone on without drama...let's not ruin it now!

 

[brakel]

aome of you are trueky foolish, or maybe its a case of being spolit brats

I don't know about the rest of 'em but I'm the youngest of six children. All of my siblings say I'm spoiled because I never had to drink powdered milk. I got to drink half powdered mixed with half regular!

 

[danivempire]

I made a statement a few pages ago but now I kinda changed my mind.
My first reaction was "it sucks".
I only discovered tpa on android towards the end of season 2 and buying the whole seasons a good deal...
When season 3 came out I bought the whole season.
It's good because you have a discount and you don't have to think about it anymore.
When it came on steam I didn't buy the game. Instead (I confess) i downloaded it illegally to test it.
Result? After a few days of playing I deleted it and bought the 3 seasons.
Now they had to stop the seasons pack?
I don't care I love tpa and if I have to pay every month for a new table, fine.
...
...
...
Just give me Addams Family ^^

 

[infernogott]

aome of you are trueky foolish, or maybe its a case of being spolit brats

Just let your stuff go through some spellcheck. I'm not a native english speaker and have a hard time deciphering your posts. Thank you.

 

[Sean]

I can safely say that there's a lot of tables I wouldn't own if I had to buy them one by one, so not selling tables in two packs would have made me a bit choosier (I would have likely skipped the Zaccharia app and on Wii U I own around half the tables).

Given the number of tables this season and the quality of them, I can't say it would make a bit of difference if I hadn't gotten the season pass when I was able to, but mainly it's convenient and not about money.

I agree it sucks that they're pulling the passes for all platforms due to issues on one, but I can also understand why they don't want a different pricing model for different platforms.

And I want to second the statement that this board is not representative of the majority of fans of this app. It's a nice microcosm, but most people cannot be bothered with posting on a forum about a game they play.

Having said that there's also weight behind major grievances which are voiced. I was taught in my brief turn in a customer service role (*shudder*) that for every nut job that complains about something there are potentially ten times as many who agree, but won't bother to write; rather they'll just not bring you any repeat business. So I make sure to write a letter/email when I have what I think is a justifiable complaint, but I also realise that most people don't tend to react well to ranting insanity, so I try to keep it civil and not make ultimatums. After all if you're saying you're a lost cause, there's not really much point in anyone making changes to please you, is there?

 

[Bowflex]

I can safely say that there's a lot of tables I wouldn't own if I had to buy them one by one, so not selling tables in two packs would have made me a bit choosier (I would have likely skipped the Zaccharia app and on Wii U I own around half the tables).

Given the number of tables this season and the quality of them, I can't say it would make a bit of difference if I hadn't gotten the season pass when I was able to, but mainly it's convenient and not about money.

I agree it sucks that they're pulling the passes for all platforms due to issues on one, but I can also understand why they don't want a different pricing model for different platforms.

And I want to second the statement that this board is not representative of the majority of fans of this app. It's a nice microcosm, but most people cannot be bothered with posting on a forum about a game they play.

Having said that there's also weight behind major grievances which are voiced. I was taught in my brief turn in a customer service role (*shudder*) that for every nut job that complains about something there are potentially ten times as many who agree, but won't bother to write; rather they'll just not bring you any repeat business. So I make sure to write a letter/email when I have what I think is a justifiable complaint, but I also realise that most people don't tend to react well to ranting insanity, so I try to keep it civil and not make ultimatums. After all if you're saying you're a lost cause, there's not really much point in anyone making changes to please you, is there?

It's hard to gauge. I think this game probably has more people online than other video games out there. I mean this forum has over 3700 members! Facebook has numbers but the posts are dominated by a dozen or so folks. I do agree that it is more than likely most members probably would not notice too much about the season pass deal since they either got it already and it is irrelevant or they are so casual it wouldn't matter. We definitely are a passionate and engaged community though.

 

[keithmoon]

I'm glad i bought Season 3 pro on steam the First day it was available.

I bought S3 last Saturday and have the 3 new S3-pins in MyTables library and the S3-icon is greyed out, so what you all are talking about??

 

[Bowflex]

I bought S3 last Saturday and have the 3 new S3-pins in MyTables library and the S3-icon is greyed out, so what you all are talking about??

The season 3 passes have been pulled until the end of the season.

It doesn't affect you if you already purchased it. Season 3 is greyed out because you bought the season pack so there are no individual tables for you to purchase so you can't access the folder since it will always be empty.

 

[infernogott]

So how long will Season 3 be available on Steam? It's still possible to buy it there.

 

[PALADiN]

To be honest, all I want is some answers on why there were issues with the season 3 pass on iOS in the first place. Is it, as I suspect, a change in Apple's policies following their settlement over IAPs or is it something else entirely?

 

[Worf]

I suspect because a bunch of season 2 pass buyers saw how crap season 2 became with all the Gottlieb tables, then season 3 starts with a good table again, but this time, another request for money, so they got pissed off and got Apple to refund them or complained.

So the basic rule became that you can't really offer these "pre orders" without telling people WHAT they're going to get - to prevent the situation where you offer 2 great things people want at the beginning, take the money, then release crap the rest of the way. So a game like Zaccaria can do it as the whole list of tables you get are there in the game as future unlocks.

The other thing is, I'm guessing, is that Apple already handled season passes using "subscription" based IAPs - where you prepay a certain amount, and every month, Apple will purchase the IAP you subscribed for. Of course, I'm not sure if you're allowed to hold your subscription in case you don't want, this month's IAP and simply extend it a bit.

Yeah, you can probably say those Gottlieb tables were great (there's got to be people who liked them), but I'm guessing most of the purchases didn't really appreciate it all too much. Especially after what a season the first one was.

 

[brakel]

I'm pretty sure it's just a general policy to reduce Apple's risk in case an app publisher does not come through on the DLC. Apple doesn't have a problem if the product is already complete but buying a product before it's been made is a little like buying futures in the commodity market. Without knowing the financials of the publisher you don't know what the risk is. It's much easier and safer for Apple to not allow it than to try to vet the publishers to determine which ones are most likely to successfully complete their obligations. You know that if an app publisher sold a season of DLC and then went belly up that people would expect Apple to give them refunds.