Season 3 pack removed from all platforms!

[Dream Demon]

We can see what "sales stay strong" means.

"We can now officially announce that the Pinball Arcade has extended it's WMS license! A bunch more Williams and Bally tables are included in this deal that will let us keep preserving awesome pinball for as long as our sales stay strong!"

I think a lot of people read that last part with a very puzzled look on their face. Why even say that at all if business was good?

 

[superballs]

I disagree on the last part, seeing that Farsight employees have said countless times on the FB page that most of their EM tables have sold very poorly. (Even though they were supposedly "free".)

I guess we'll know how right/wrong the customer is based on how long TPA lasts. As of now, there are more complaints about the business model than there are compliments. I think the majority fan base would agree that Farsight has a very POOR and UNORGANIZED business model.

Like previously mentioned, I love the games, but the company's way of handling things are almost embarrassing. I keep hoping for a better turnaround, and hopefully we'll get one. I'll continue to show my support by buying tables, but I'm not gonna suck up or/and be quiet about the issues, either.

So my whole statement is invalidated based on limited info about a maximum of 2 tables?

A lot of sales arguments are given about other tables as well.

Anyway, giving the company money in support even though they make decisions you don't like is kind of like sucking up isn't it? I mean, the company wants your money, not your praise, right?

 

[Dream Demon]

So my whole statement is invalidated based on limited info about a maximum of 2 tables?

A lot of sales arguments are given about other tables as well.

Anyway, giving the company money in support even though they make decisions you don't like is kind of like sucking up isn't it? I mean, the company wants your money, not your praise, right?

You said:

"The biggest flaw in any argument on these forums is that they are usually presented as if the poster has any knowledge of farsights financials. People often talk about which tables sold more or less than other... usually based on nothing more than that person's opinion of said table in an "I don't like this table so it must not have sold well" manner."

I'm saying that your statement above is incorrect, based on what Farsight employees are telling us. It doesn't matter if it's 2 tables or 50, the point is that Farsight have said, many times over, that their EM tables have sold poorly. This is fact and indisputable. It's no wonder why we haven't seen any new EM tables in quite a long time.

Secondly, no, I disagree that giving a company money is "Sucking up". When I mention that word, I'm referring to the "Farsight can do no wrong, don't ever question them" group. There are many of them, just go through some threads. lol

Lastly, of course a company wants your money, but they also want your feedback as well. I think anyone with common business sense knows that Customer Feedback= Better chances to make money. (Examples of this could be the Top 10 Polls, or even an employee's direct words, saying "Tell us what needs fixing, what we can do better, we'd love to hear from you".)

 

[spoonman]

Can we all at least agree that it's a bad idea for Farsight to drop season pre-purchasing across all platforms?

 

[LeRoy3rd]

Yep.

 

[PALADiN]

I can't help but feel that this decision and the change in policy by Apple is due to their settlement over in app purchases.

 

[danivempire]

Can we all at least agree that it's a bad idea for Farsight to drop season pre-purchasing across all platforms?

Yep...

 

[Espy]

I bought Season Pass 2 on PS3 because Farsight promised me a discount on Season Pass 3. Where does this leave me?

 

[priested]

This all boils down to price per table. I have always intended to buy all of the tables offered. If they do away with the season packs but charge $3 per table i have no problem with this change and I will continue to buy them all. If they stay at $5, I will be pissed and I will be very choosy about which I buy - if any. I would then look seriously into going with something like VP or FP instead.

 

[Kemetman72]

Not a good showing for the next-gen consoles either who only have season 1.

 

[Espy]

I think one of the biggest issues with this announcement is that FS promised credit towards season pass 3 for everyone who bought table packs 11-14 on PS3 before season pass 2 was available. The way the prices worked out I would have got season pass 3 for about the price of one table. And I bought the season pass with that promise. Now they're not doing season passes. Even if they offer me credit towards individual tables, I will get less than half the packs they initially promised.

 

[shutyertrap]

We just recorded a new podcast and talk a bit about this topic. I wish I could say we did as good a job discussing all the angles you guys are bringing up, but we tried. Should be up in a few days time for listening. Spoiler alert...we're all pretty much in agreement with what's being said here.

 

[priested]

I'm sure FS makes the most money of IOS and they are worried about pissing off that group and losing customers off their most profitable platform. This is a business decision for them. I'm sure they thought it through very carefully and decided this decision was the least risky to their bottom line.

The problem is that their primary competition (Zen Studios) charges about $3 per table on most platforms and only $2 on IOS. How is FSU going to compete at $5/table? My hope is that they price comparatively with their competition. If they do that, I doubt anyone will have problems as that does not represent a price increase...and perhaps a price decrease on IOS (wishful thinking I know).

 

[brakel]

I disagree on the last part, seeing that Farsight employees have said countless times on the FB page that most of their EM tables have sold very poorly. (Even though they were supposedly "free".)

I guess we'll know how right/wrong the customer is based on how long TPA lasts. As of now, there are more complaints about the business model than there are compliments. I think the majority fan base would agree that Farsight has a very POOR and UNORGANIZED business model.

Like previously mentioned, I love the games, but the company's way of handling things are almost embarrassing. I keep hoping for a better turnaround, and hopefully we'll get one. I'll continue to show my support by buying tables, but I'm not gonna suck up or/and be quiet about the issues, either.

Actually their business model is quite good. Their business model is to make software and sell it. That's a fairly straight forward and clear business model. I'm not even sure how a business model can be unorganized.

I'm sure FS makes the most money of IOS and they are worried about pissing off that group and losing customers off their most profitable platform. This is a business decision for them. I'm sure they thought it through very carefully and decided this decision was the least risky to their bottom line.

The problem is that their primary competition (Zen Studios) charges about $3 per table on most platforms and only $2 on IOS. How is FSU going to compete at $5/table? My hope is that they price comparatively with their competition. If they do that, I doubt anyone will have problems as that does not represent a price increase...and perhaps a price decrease on IOS (wishful thinking I know).

They don't have to compete directly on price as long as people are willing to pay a premium for virtual versions of real tables. TPA is a different product than Zen is making. It's like thinking that no one is going to buy bananas because apples are cheaper.

 

[Mike Reitmeyer]

1.) You buy a table pack while in-game, without a Farsight login. I assume it's tied to your steamid, but doesn't actually appear as registered DLC in Steam.
2.) You buy a table pack while in-game, while logged in to Farsight. For this one, it is connected to your login e-mail, and it seems Farsight keeps their own database of who has what. If you log out of your Farsight login, you won't have access to your table anymore, thus it's not associated with your steamid.
3.) You buy a season pack through Steam - handled by steam, purchased through it's interface, and recognized as proper DLC, you don't need to be logged into farsight to have access to your tables.

Just want to clarify, if you buy the table packs in game, they are tied to your Steam ID using Steam's api's. The FarSight login isn't used at all in the purchasing. The only time anything is tied to you FarSight account is for Kickstarters.

 

[priested]

Actually their business model is quite good. Their business model is to make software and sell it. That's a fairly straight forward and clear business model. I'm not even sure how a business model can be unorganized.



They don't have to compete directly on price as long as people are willing to pay a premium for virtual versions of real tables. TPA is a different product than Zen is making. It's like thinking that no one is going to buy bananas because apples are cheaper.

Well, this is somewhat true but not everybody has unlimited funds. They are both pinball games that play quite similarly on most platforms. If bananas are $5 and apples are $3, some with limited funds are going to decide they can do without bananas and eat apples instead.

For example, I buy all tables for both of these games on iOS and PC. If FS goes to $5/table for all platforms, I will cease purchasing TPA on iOS and only purchase some of the tables on PC. I will continue to purchase all tables from Zen on both platforms.

 

[superballs]

You said:

"The biggest flaw in any argument on these forums is that they are usually presented as if the poster has any knowledge of farsights financials. People often talk about which tables sold more or less than other... usually based on nothing more than that person's opinion of said table in an "I don't like this table so it must not have sold well" manner."

I'm saying that your statement above is incorrect, based on what Farsight employees are telling us. It doesn't matter if it's 2 tables or 50, the point is that Farsight have said, many times over, that their EM tables have sold poorly. This is fact and indisputable. It's no wonder why we haven't seen any new EM tables in quite a long time.

Secondly, no, I disagree that giving a company money is "Sucking up". When I mention that word, I'm referring to the "Farsight can do no wrong, don't ever question them" group. There are many of them, just go through some threads. lol

Lastly, of course a company wants your money, but they also want your feedback as well. I think anyone with common business sense knows that Customer Feedback= Better chances to make money. (Examples of this could be the Top 10 Polls, or even an employee's direct words, saying "Tell us what needs fixing, what we can do better, we'd love to hear from you".)

So you're saying Scared Stiff didn't sell well then?

 

[jkonami]

Just want to clarify, if you buy the table packs in game, they are tied to your Steam ID using Steam's api's. The FarSight login isn't used at all in the purchasing. The only time anything is tied to you FarSight account is for Kickstarters.

Thanks for the clarification Mike. My #2 (assumption) is based on a table pack I won from Farsight during Xmas, when I noticed I only had access when I was logged in to Farsight, otherwise it disappeared from "My Tables." I guess this is pretty much how the Kickstarters work as well, right? I was worried that buying tables through the game might not be properly attached to my Steam account. If it's not too much trouble, would you consider looking into making all purchased DLC in-game appear when you right-click the TPA icon/banner, choose properties and select the "DLC" tab? I know it may not be possible, but it would be nice. It's just a purchasing confidence thing. I've heard similar concerns on the Steam forums, from people trying to figure out if they are eligible for the trading cards, for example.

 

[rob3d]

My only problem with losing the season pass is I might end up skipping tables again. During season 1 I only bought tables on iOS where the theme interested me so I had only bought about 7 tables total. I completely ignored Taxi when it 1st came out beacuse it didn't look worth it to me. Then it was offered as free table of the month and it ended up being one of my favorites.

When the season passes were released I ended up buying both season 1 and 2 on android just to take advantage of the savings, and I realized I missed out on a lot of great playing tables because I was buying them one buy one. For season 3 I just bought the season outright because I liked having new tables regardless of the theme every month.

Its just a psychological thing, I'm just more likely to pay a larger sum upfront, than to have to convince myself every month "is this table really worth my money right now". I'm not saying the tables are overpriced, its just makes the purchase an option rather than a given. If the season passes were never released I'd probably only own 12 or so tables out of the bunch, and I can tell you right now I have many more favorites than that in TPAs library. Farsight got more money out of me than they were likely to because of those season passes.

 

[Heretic]

ive still got theoinball refugee memtality even after 2 years, so im happy with any table with 2 flippers and some pop bumpers.

i dont see the huge fuss tbh, cheapers always better i guess, a simgle tpa has more replayblity than ten aaa titles combine at 60 dollars a pop