superballs
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- Apr 12, 2012
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Welcome Back to Digital Pinball Fans - please read this first
Table Pack 20 Announced! Cue Ball Wizard™ and El Dorado City of Gold™
- Thread starter capslock42
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I have a bit of a soft spot for Cue Ball Wizard; they had one in a bowling alley near here and I played the hell out of it just because it was pinball. So if nothing else for nostalgic value I think I'll give that one quite a few plays. El Dorado seems like another wildcard. But hell, I've still got lots of catching up to do on older packs anyway so even if this pack doesn't quite totally grip me, at this point the platform has a wide enough base of tables that you pretty much can't get bored unless you're sick of pinball in general.
The only thing about the recent Gottlieb-a-thon that gives me a bit of pause is the fact that there haven't been any new Williams games in a while. I heard that there was something in the licensing that limited the number of tables they could release, and I'm going to be a bit nervous until I see a new Williams show up. Earthshaker or Fish Tales would be great, but anything at this point would set my mind at ease that they'll be able to get around to some of the remaining "big ones."
The only thing about the recent Gottlieb-a-thon that gives me a bit of pause is the fact that there haven't been any new Williams games in a while. I heard that there was something in the licensing that limited the number of tables they could release, and I'm going to be a bit nervous until I see a new Williams show up. Earthshaker or Fish Tales would be great, but anything at this point would set my mind at ease that they'll be able to get around to some of the remaining "big ones."
Espy
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- Sep 9, 2013
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They had to renegotiate to extend their license, but there was nothing to suggest that it might not get renewed. Rest easy.
I am really sick of this type of defense post, it comes out every time bad tables are released.
Actually, I would argue quite the opposite. I'd say people who just accept any old table, even really bad ones, are the ones who don't love pinball. Because if you loved pinball, you'd demand higher standards of tables, and not settle sub par ones.
Please stop trying to guilt players by saying "you must not like pinball!" BS. No, they like pinball just fine, they just aren't fans of broken tables with poor art and production. And try to sympathize with players who have been promised 8-Ball Deluxe, a massively requested classic only to be let down month after month.
It'd be like if the DLC for Gran Turismo 6 featured the Geo Metro and Ford Pinto. Well you must hate cars if you can't appreciate every car every made! This is the silliest line of thinking ever.
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- Feb 19, 2012
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...except these two tables have good ratings. Do you realize that Cue Ball Wizard has the exact same 7.5 rating as Jack*Bot at IPDB? ...and we've already established that the El Dorado playfield layout is one of the better EM layouts of all time, according to the rankings...
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Jeff are you seriously trying to argue with me that Cue Ball Wizard is as good or even remotely in the same league as Jack*Bot? Wow.
Usually I never walk away from a good argument but. That's not a good argument. That's a joke.
I don't have a problem with El Dorado.
- Feb 19, 2012
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No, I'm not arguing. Just sharing the numbers and the fact that it's rated the same.
...and Class of 1812 has a 7.8...putting it higher than Eight Ball Deluxe, heh.
...plus we all know Haunted House is ranked even higher than all of these, so a lot of people like these Gottlieb pins, even if you don't.
Also Jeff. Last time we got into an argument about a table, it was Party Zone. I argued it was good, and I cited a top 50 rank on IPDB. You said that IPDB was not as reputable as Pinside, where the table had a lower ranking. Well, Jack*Bot is 83rd on Pinside, and CBW is somewhere in the bottom 200.
I'm not going to say which site is "better", I think they are both solid resources, but you can't discredit a site, then all of a sudden use that same site as source, just to support your argument one way or the other. I don't really understand why you brought Jack*Bot out of left field, but I can say that anyone who thinks CBW approaches the quality of something like Jack*Bot is either delusional, or clinically insane.
Uhh. Ok. Well, I'd check sales numbers, Facebook, and this very thread that all disagree with you.
This is pretty silly, you're now telling me 8-Ball Deluxe is inferior to Class of 1812? Lol ok man.
I'm not going to say which site is "better", I think they are both solid resources, but you can't discredit a site, then all of a sudden use that same site as source, just to support your argument one way or the other. I don't really understand why you brought Jack*Bot out of left field, but I can say that anyone who thinks CBW approaches the quality of something like Jack*Bot is either delusional, or clinically insane.
Uhh. Ok. Well, I'd check sales numbers, Facebook, and this very thread that all disagree with you.
This is pretty silly, you're now telling me 8-Ball Deluxe is inferior to Class of 1812? Lol ok man.
- Feb 19, 2012
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Hey, I'm just sharing the numbers that contradict this whole "Gottlieb sucks" thing you keep trumpeting. It's getting old, dude, so just stop.
And I do think Pinside is better, but IPDB is fine too. I realize that.
And I do think Pinside is better, but IPDB is fine too. I realize that.
Now playing in the PC sub forum PinkGate Returns !!!!
To lighten the atmosphere a bit...
Sales records for machines sold are pretty much indisputable.
Rankings of machines done by various groups are what they are. Some group of people voted, the numbers were tallied and the lists made.
It doesn't mean that the final rankings are what everyone who voted wanted them to be.
It certainly doesn't mean that people that didn't vote or participate in creating the rakings will agree with them.
I don't see that Jeff argued at all. He stated the ranking numbers as they exist.
You don't have to like the same tables as anyone else, but that doesn't mean posting factual information is a joke.
Sales records for machines sold are pretty much indisputable.
Rankings of machines done by various groups are what they are. Some group of people voted, the numbers were tallied and the lists made.
It doesn't mean that the final rankings are what everyone who voted wanted them to be.
It certainly doesn't mean that people that didn't vote or participate in creating the rakings will agree with them.
I don't see that Jeff argued at all. He stated the ranking numbers as they exist.
You don't have to like the same tables as anyone else, but that doesn't mean posting factual information is a joke.
- Feb 19, 2012
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Yes, good points. There's no way CBW would've sold 5700 units if it was a broken piece of junk. That's more than double the amount Jack*Bot sold. The only reason I mention that pin is because they both have the same rating.
Yes, there are a lot of better pins, but just trying to add some balance here.
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Rudy Yagov
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- Mar 30, 2012
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Fun fact: Hollywood Heat is one of Steve Ritchie's favorite games and he called it John Trudeau's best.
CBW came out during the height of pinball in the early 90's. Jack*Bot came out in 1996, during the great decline.
If we're going by sales numbers, then Attack From Mars, Medieval Madness, and Monster Bash are also inferior to CBW, since all of them sold less units.
Pinside and IPDB clearly have different participants for their ranking systems.
Each ranking system is accurate for universe of those that created them.
It's understandable that many people may prefer one ranking system over an other. That's a simple matter of personal preference.
It has nothing to do with one system being "better" than the other.
if everyone liked the same thing, we'd all still be driving black Model T cars.
Differences are what make the world go 'round.
Each ranking system is accurate for universe of those that created them.
It's understandable that many people may prefer one ranking system over an other. That's a simple matter of personal preference.
It has nothing to do with one system being "better" than the other.
if everyone liked the same thing, we'd all still be driving black Model T cars.
Differences are what make the world go 'round.
For reference, here are some sales data for tables released in 1992:
White Water: 7,000 units
Star Wars: 10,000 units
The Getaway: 13,000 units
Fish Tales: 14,000 units
Creature from the Black Lagoon: 7,800 units
Dr. Who: 7,800 units
Lethal Weapon 3: 3000
Black Rose: 4,000
So actually, by 1992 standards, CBW sales are on the lower end of the spectrum. Addams Family was also released that year, but I think you get the point.
White Water: 7,000 units
Star Wars: 10,000 units
The Getaway: 13,000 units
Fish Tales: 14,000 units
Creature from the Black Lagoon: 7,800 units
Dr. Who: 7,800 units
Lethal Weapon 3: 3000
Black Rose: 4,000
So actually, by 1992 standards, CBW sales are on the lower end of the spectrum. Addams Family was also released that year, but I think you get the point.
- Feb 19, 2012
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That is a good point, man.
Like I said, just trying to add some balance here. I think the ratings are important too because it's how people feel about the pins now. Even in this thread, several people have said they like CBW, and 1812 was requested by quite a few people as well.
- Feb 19, 2012
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BTW, to say something like this is just silly and rude because obviously there are a lot of people who feel this way, otherwise they both wouldn't have the same rating on IPDB.
Right on. 1812 and Haunted House definitely have their fans, and CBW isn't the end of the world. I think though the general consensus is Gottlieb fatigue, everyone's ready to move on. Next month it's time for some Stern, Sega, or DE stuff for sure.
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