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[PS Garek]

See Lost in the Zone: Six-Pinball Machines for why I dislike it.

I love Who - but it is a variation on Oursler's very cruel Pinbot design - it's pretty much Pinbot 4. But I love Pinbot as well.

 

[The loafer]

Something to consider is the development and licensing costs that goes along with doing modern dmd games versus sme of these older pins. Farsight is a business and from a business perspective, it makes a lot of sense to match a newer expensive to develop table with an older one that requires less time to build due to less complex table build, no toys AND is a lot cheaper to license, etc. bottom line is, it may not make sense financially to put out two tables per month if both of those are modern pins, but it does make sense if one of them is cheaper/takes less time to make.

 

[brakel]

Something to consider is the development and licensing costs that goes along with doing modern dmd games versus sme of these older pins. Farsight is a business and from a business perspective, it makes a lot of sense to match a newer expensive to develop table with an older one that requires less time to build due to less complex table build, no toys AND is a lot cheaper to license, etc. bottom line is, it may not make sense financially to put out two tables per month if both of those are modern pins, but it does make sense if one of them is cheaper/takes less time to make.

I wasn't aware of a difference of licensing costs between DMD and non DMD tables. I thought that the non third part licenses were covered by a blanket license agreement for all machines per manufacturer. I know there is a per unit fee but I just assumed that it was the same for all Williams tables, for instance.

 

[smbhax]

I think adding more old 70's style tables isn't a very good idea. In fact, most of the ones already on TPA are the ones I play/like the least.

Everyone knows the best tables are from the mid 80's-mid 90's. Just check sales and fan polls.

Mata Hari came out in 1978 and sold over 16,000 units. It also happens to be a pretty great table. ; ) Modern polls are gonna be weighted toward what tables people are encountering in the wild, though. I only know about Mata Hari, for instance, because I heard about it in a podcast and then came across a simulated version. So it would be more accurate to remove "best" from your statement and just say "everyone knows the tables from the mid 80's-mid 90's," because most people of internet age haven't actually played the older stuff--and they write them off when they see them in photos or screenshots, or even in brief demo play, because they look too different from what they're used to; in particular they can't fathom that a style of pinball without ramps and modes--where all shots are dangerous and reward you with physical bells and collisions rather than a digital animation--can actually be really fun.

I'm fortunate enough to live near a pinball arcade with a large selection of tables from the '60s through today--a place like that is great for letting you discover which era of pinball actually resonates with you the most. You can't find that out from looking at numbers, or reading the opinions of others. And it's something that FarSight has always sought to recreate in their pinball games--to give you the opportunity to experience pinball from all different eras. Personally I think we still need at least one good classic single-ball target and spinner game in TPA, though--thankfully it sounds like Eight Ball Deluxe (1981) will be here in the not-too-distant future; it's a couple years past my favorite pinball period, but it'll do for now. ; )

 

[The loafer]

I wasn't aware of a difference of licensing costs between DMD and non DMD tables. I thought that the non third part licenses were covered by a blanket license agreement for all machines per manufacturer. I know there is a per unit fee but I just assumed that it was the same for all Williams tables, for instance.

In some instances there may not be, but the DMD era also has a lot more licensed themes so those have higher costs and many of the popular ones are tied to licenses. Although not all of them are as expensive as T2, Twilight Zone, Addams Family, etc; taking a quick look at the top 10 pins on ipdb.org shows that 6 of them are licensed. Still, the biggest point I was making is that they are more difficult to build then an EM, so financially speaking, there are many reasons to bring some of these into Pinball Arcade... aside from the fact they do have their fans.

Now, if we get two EM's a month for 6 months straight, that's a little far for sure, but one EM or single ball SS game every two months? No problem with that at all.

 

[sotie]

Mata Hari came out in 1978 and sold over 16,000 units. It also happens to be a pretty great table. ; ) Modern polls are gonna be weighted toward what tables people are encountering in the wild, though. I only know about Mata Hari, for instance, because I heard about it in a podcast and then came across a simulated version. So it would be more accurate to remove "best" from your statement and just say "everyone knows the tables from the mid 80's-mid 90's," because most people of internet age haven't actually played the older stuff--and they write them off when they see them in photos or screenshots, or even in brief demo play, because they look too different from what they're used to; in particular they can't fathom that a style of pinball without ramps and modes--where all shots are dangerous and reward you with physical bells and collisions rather than a digital animation--can actually be really fun.

I'm fortunate enough to live near a pinball arcade with a large selection of tables from the '60s through today--a place like that is great for letting you discover which era of pinball actually resonates with you the most. You can't find that out from looking at numbers, or reading the opinions of others. And it's something that FarSight has always sought to recreate in their pinball games--to give you the opportunity to experience pinball from all different eras. Personally I think we still need at least one good classic single-ball target and spinner game in TPA, though--thankfully it sounds like Eight Ball Deluxe (1981) will be here in the not-too-distant future; it's a couple years past my favorite pinball period, but it'll do for now. ; )

I just played Mata Hari for the first time a couple of weeks ago. I loved it!

 

[sotie]

Like I said, I'm all for variety.

I'd love to see "Rocky" or the original KISS pin tables.

LOL. I thought this is what you said...

I think adding more old 70's style tables isn't a very good idea. In fact, most of the ones already on TPA are the ones I play/like the least.

Everyone knows the best tables are from the mid 80's-mid 90's. Just check sales and fan polls.

 

[Lucipher28]

LOL. I thought this is what you said...

As I said, we all love Pinball, the most important thing.

I can be all for variety, while still thinking adding a ton of older pins is a bad idea. (Variety is what keeps people interested, but adding more pins like "Addams Family" and "Indiana Jones" will keep people even MORE interested vs pins like "Central Park".)

Again, most people love the more advanced pins vs the simple, boring pins. If you've ever played "Rocky", it's boring as hell. However, it's from a classic movie, and not many even know a table even exists, so that's the cool thing about having it out. It's neat to see something like that, doesn't mean it's fun to play. I thought "Central Park" was neat, but the table is horrific. It's very hard, and very boring.

 

[JoshuaKadmon]

In some instances there may not be, but the DMD era also has a lot more licensed themes so those have higher costs and many of the popular ones are tied to licenses. Although not all of them are as expensive as T2, Twilight Zone, Addams Family, etc; taking a quick look at the top 10 pins on ipdb.org shows that 6 of them are licensed. Still, the biggest point I was making is that they are more difficult to build then an EM, so financially speaking, there are many reasons to bring some of these into Pinball Arcade... aside from the fact they do have their fans.

Now, if we get two EM's a month for 6 months straight, that's a little far for sure, but one EM or single ball SS game every two months? No problem with that at all.

I think brakel was just trying to be nice, loafer. You're talking about two separate issues here, and a table's age has little to nothing to do with it.. Licensing can be an expensive hurdle on both old and new tables, and the price of an older collector table can be just as high as a newer one. And I'm willing to bet an older table takes FS just as much time and effort to recreate as a DMD one. They've stated that they don't cut corners, they don't re-use assets from PHoF, and even if an old EM or alphanumeric is seemingly less complex than a DMD machine, attention to minor details becomes even more important with less cluttered playfields. So no, older tables are not necessarily less expensive, less time-consuming, or less challenging than new ones.

That being said, I prefer an even mix of both old and new, and since FS has stated that we should be getting four seasons, I think they will continue releasing 2-table packs almost every month (except for Kickstarter premium tables). Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to set season pass prices ahead of time. And at this point, I think it's clear that FS likes to pair old and new designs to maintain variety whenever they can.

 

[The loafer]

Joshua: I am positive they don't cut corners too, but in the virtual community, tables with "toys" tend to take a lot longer to do them properly then tables without toys. Tables with ramps have specific physics concerns that also aren't an issue with tables that don't have them. The more complex a real table is, the more balls on the table, the more stuff going on, the harder it usually is simulate. Perhaps the development tools used by Farsight are different but I doubt it. IMHO anyway.

As it is, we are in agreement anyway: variety is good.

 

[Kolchak357]

Don't discount the time that goes into scripting an older table. There is no rom to emulate on older pins. Scripting takes time based on comments I've read around here.

 

[DarthVonDoom]

There is nothing cheesy about Freddy! Such blasphemous comment should be deleted. I'm offended There is a freaking mechanical hand grabbing the ball in Addams Family and everybody gets all wet over that table. Why is the hand not cheesy?

Plus only weirdo likes having their balls grabbed by a mechanical hand. Just saying...

 

[JoshuaKadmon]

There is nothing cheesy about Freddy! Such blasphemous comment should be deleted. I'm offended There is a freaking mechanical hand grabbing the ball in Addams Family and everybody gets all wet over that table. Why is the hand not cheesy?

Plus only weirdo likes having their balls grabbed by a mechanical hand. Just saying...

priceless

 

[Kolchak357]

I like Freddy but I've never seen one with all the blades on the glove still intact. It's like they came pre-broken.

 

[xNiCeGuYx]

Thing IS cheesy! I hate it!

 

[DarthVonDoom]

I like Freddy but I've never seen one with all the blades on the glove still intact. It's like they came pre-broken.

If Freddy had plastic blades in the movies Tina would have whooped his ass and it would have ended there with the first one. Gottlieb should have forged them in hell. Cheap ass company.

 

[Lucipher28]

There is nothing cheesy about Freddy! Such blasphemous comment should be deleted. I'm offended There is a freaking mechanical hand grabbing the ball in Addams Family and everybody gets all wet over that table. Why is the hand not cheesy?

Plus only weirdo likes having their balls grabbed by a mechanical hand. Just saying...

Hahahahahaha.

 

[Lucipher28]

I'm ready for the next 2 tables!!!

 

[Lucipher28]

I was wondering if there are future plans to release all these tables on a disc?

 

[Bowflex]

I was wondering if there are future plans to release all these tables on a disc?

It's been discussed and it is not 100% ruled out but it is extremely unlikely. It really makes no sense and would actually take even longer to get out to market (plus everything would need updated as soon as you loaded the disc into the system)