There will be no EM this season

[Naildriver74]

I thought I was the true complaining king,
but I've just handed my ranting crown to him!

That's not complaining he just needs a nap.

 

[ThePinballFan]

For the most part,I agree with you. I'm not the biggest EM fan either,but there are some out there that do play well and deserve a place in TPA. FS should have been more specific when announcing this poll. That would have cleared things up at least somewhat.

Pre-1980 means exactly that. BEFORE 1980. Which means Xenon shouldn't have qualified in the first place. Period. You could be developing something for 10 years,but it means squat until it's released for sale.

And no,I'm not hating on Xenon winning. I'll gladly buy it when it comes out. And if Paragon/Fireball ever make it into TPA,I'll get them both. But the decision makers at FS should really take a good look at this thread. Maybe learn something from it. And do better the next time. Because the more you divide or ignore your fanbase,the worse it will be for your product in the end.

A really good contribution, I couldn't have said/written it better - I agree 100% on his opinion!
Voted for Xenon, so I'am blameworthy too.

 

[Reagan Dow]

A really good contribution, I couldn't have said/written it better - I agree 100% on his opinion!
Voted for Xenon, so I'am blameworthy too.

+1

 

[JJH516]

I still think we'll get Fireball next season.

 

[Fungi]

So... what exactly was the point of this poll since it was so totally ignored.

 

[JJH516]

So... what exactly was the point of this poll since it was so totally ignored.

That's actually a very good question.

 

[TheSlayerNL]

I really wish people would quit trying to play the age card. I was also born in 89, and I love EM tables. I'm pretty much the exact opposite as you and I'm the same age. I get bored of games with too many rules and an overwhelming amout of modes way too quickly.

To me, the best era of pinball will forever be the alphanumeric/WMS System 11 era of the late 80s/early 90s because it strikes a perfect balance of enough rules to keep you busy without being too much of a chore to get through.

I wasn't trying to play the age card, just mentioning it, it might also have to do with the country you are born in. I don't know how wide spread pinball tables were when I was born, but here in The Netherlands there wasn't really a place close to my home where I would play pinball tables. So the only pinball I knew was the 1 of Windows, Slamtilt and 3D Ultra Pinball, I guess that is why I like tunes and complexity more in a table then bells and simplicity.

 

[Extork]

So... what exactly was the point of this poll since it was so totally ignored.

I can understand doing another poll just to be certain. My problem is, FS could've gone about it much differently. As far as letting us know certain things. All they said was, hey we're doing another poll. They could've at least told us the reason. As far as I know, they haven't held 2 polls before. I could understand if the second poll was just to see how the EM stacks up against the other 2. But it seems like this one was official. And that they wanted the results to change. I'm not pleased with FS's tactics. 1 poll would've been enough. I keep trying to think of FS as a business, and that they need to make as much money as possible, but 2 polls is about the shadiest thing I've ever heard of. Especially when everyone knows Xenon is going to win. Yes, Paragon had a fighting chance this time. But I just wonder what exactly they were trying to accomplish this time around.

 

[Extork]

I can understand doing another poll just to be certain. My problem is, FS could've gone about it much differently. As far as letting us know certain things. All they said was, hey we're doing another poll. They could've at least told us the reason. As far as I know, they haven't held 2 polls before. I could understand if the second poll was just to see how the EM stacks up against the other 2. But it seems like this one was official. And that they wanted the results to change. I'm not pleased with FS's tactics. 1 poll would've been enough. I keep trying to think of FS as a business, and that they need to make as much money as possible, but 2 polls is about the shadiest thing I've ever heard of. Especially when everyone knows Xenon is going to win. Yes, Paragon had a fighting chance this time. But I just wonder what exactly they were trying to accomplish this time around.

Even if it was an attempt to please everyone (not possible), how much do you think it would piss off the people that want xenon. And on the other hand, what if Paragon had won this poll just to find out they're going with Xenon anyways. This all could've been handled differently

 

[Jeff Strong]

So... what exactly was the point of this poll since it was so totally ignored.

I can understand doing another poll just to be certain. My problem is, FS could've gone about it much differently. As far as letting us know certain things. All they said was, hey we're doing another poll. They could've at least told us the reason. As far as I know, they haven't held 2 polls before. I could understand if the second poll was just to see how the EM stacks up against the other 2. But it seems like this one was official. And that they wanted the results to change. I'm not pleased with FS's tactics. 1 poll would've been enough. I keep trying to think of FS as a business, and that they need to make as much money as possible, but 2 polls is about the shadiest thing I've ever heard of. Especially when everyone knows Xenon is going to win. Yes, Paragon had a fighting chance this time. But I just wonder what exactly they were trying to accomplish this time around.

Might want to check Fungi's link again.

 

[Extork]

Crap, did I get all heated for no reason? Haha.

Edit: I thought I was on the other thread. This is a situation where you could say RTFA. Read the article lol

 

[whoozwah]

Honestly the only way to really grasp if the tables would be viable or not would to do new polls asking if the consumer would buy em table x. Yes or no. If the data supports producing that table as being feasible, go ahead and do it. Then check the sales after 2 months. Did the consumers voting put their money where their mouths were or did they pass? If they didn't, then pass.

Agreed.

Now for my thoughts on the subject:

Every EM I have in my TPA library is a table I HAD to buy because it came with a table I actually wanted. Farsight knows this. That's why they packaged them the way they did. Now that tables are sold individually it becomes much more vital to release tables that will sell as the value proposition for each release (on the surface) is literally half what it once was. The poll may have put certain tables in a position to win moreso than others but what happened was, people voted for what they wanted in the first round. Xenon won.

Xenon looks like a pretty cool table and I may buy it when it comes out. I don't know that I would say the same if the winner was an EM. It's just not an era I really dig in the history of pinball. I can't say they're bad games. I really can't because in a sense these tables are works of art and art touches people in different ways.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Crap, did I get all heated for no reason? Haha.

Edit: I thought I was on the other thread. This is a situation where you could say RTFA. Read the article lol

Heh, no worries man.

 

[David T. Melnick]

Oh well. The choices were there and the community showed they didn't want it. In the original poll between Centigrade 37, Fireball, Royal Flush, and Spirit of 76 there were only 65 votes. Not a huge showing for the EM outcry that's been going on. And the second poll its even clearer that EMs are not wanted in favor of SS or newer machines. The fact is this is a company needs money to stay in business so its pretty clear its not worth taking a risk on EM sales when you have sure fire sales for Xenon or Paragon.

That said I love Silverballs idea of a "free" EM as a reward those that have a "gold" season pass (e.g. if you have all the season passes up to S4). No idea how well the Seasons passes sell but if the company is looking for a way to motivate people to buy in to them then that might be a good marketing tactic. I can imagine the hard core EM players, who just buy a la carte as they don't care so much for newer tables, may be more prone to purchase the Season Passes. Or just bake an EM in to one of the tiered rewards for whatever the next Kickstarter is. $100 gets you whatever Kickstarter table plus an excusive EM table.

Here's hoping for an EM in S5.

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proof easily given eh. To be fair & balanced, "Fireball" is a great one (EM) eh.

 

[David T. Melnick]

Anyone complaining about Xenon being in a "pre-1980" poll is off base. You're quibbling over semantics in the title. It's clear it really meant "1980 or earlier" and if it were titled that way nobody would care. You're grasping at straws for something to complain about.

If you're complaining that Xenon is pushing out the chance to have an EM, and even that Farsight intentionally structured the poll for that to happen, you may be correct. But also still off base in the larger picture, since it's pretty clear Xenon would considerably outsell any EM and so Farsight should do it.

EMs just aren't as popular as a vocal minority wants them to be.

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yea...grasping at straws; hair splitting eh. Not much difference between 1980 & 1979 eh.

 

[David T. Melnick]

I just don't see any "facts" or pure apples to apples evidence to back up the decision. It's all spin. Thus far the only polls that had em's in them were situations where the em was pitted against two solid state tables (popular ones to boot). Of course it is going to lose. If you did a poll of space shuttle, fireball and medieval madness, mm will destroy the other two. As stated, and previously acknowledged by farsight decision making employees, the previous em entries were not sold as standalone tables on all (or any platforms for one) so there is no true sales data. Finally the offerings in the past have not been the more popular or well known tables. This was also acknowledged by farsight decision makers. Farsight has released two tables total from the em's out there.

Honestly the only way to really grasp if the tables would be viable or not would to do new polls asking if the consumer would buy em table x. Yes or no. If the data supports producing that table as being feasible, go ahead and do it. Then check the sales after 2 months. Did the consumers voting put their money where their mouths were or did they pass? If they didn't, then pass.

Fireball got killed in the poll against centaur and eight ball deluxe. Just like it got killed by xenon and paragon. It lost to four newer tables, all were heavily demanded and popular in their own right. That doesn't mean the people who voted for those tables wouldn't buy fireball. It's just a preference when comparing. If I go to a restaurant and order a burger it doesn't mean I wouldn't order a chicken sandwich. I just was in the mood for a burger that day. Or maybe if the option was there I would order both and take half of each for leftovers but I am stuck into a pick one only situation so the burger wins.

I would honestly like to see the farsight stand behind the statement and make one em table. Even though they also stated one would be coming in season 5, if the em fails to sell,or they do some advance research which definitively suggests an em as a losing venture, they are off the hook. I don't want any more em tables if they fail but at least show some integrity to the supporters.

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exactly right there alright. The example of the sandwiches are spot on.

 

[David T. Melnick]

I was only born in 1989 and well, I really prefer the modern tables because there is more going on. They look great and sound great. We live in modern times, it will be very hard for Pinball Arcade to find love for those very old tables because people have been used to modern games. I really don't care about any old table with just those bells and ****, that would just annoy me rather then allow me to enjoy it. Just get over it, EM's are not popular in current times, time to move on.

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ya might want to chill out eh - .

 

[ThePinballFan]

I have great fun with pinball tables like Big Shot, Genie, Black Hole and Gorgar .
I don't own the Season two so far but I will buy the retail disc early february.
Really looking forward to play Goin'nuts, Central Park, Haunted House, Space Shuttle and so on.
Nothing wrong with old pins, I like the difference between them and the modern tables.
I like a big variety, would be happy if Fireball/Paragon/Eight Ball Deluxe and Sorcerer would be included in the near future.
Xenon will join us soon, hope so.
I heard that the replay ability is not so good on Xenon, but I see no problem there.
In every TPA session (1 hour long) I play 4 or 5 tables and the next time I play other ones, I mix them up to keep them fresh.

 

[smbhax]

FarSight's EM recreation's feel like crap anyway.

I tend to agree with this. Their generic (modernish) flipper feel really hurts their EM conversions, for instance. I keep VP around basically for this reason.

 

[wolfson]

relax brothers and sisters,i was brought up on EMs and I really love them,bottom line for me is I get a new table every month.to be honest I would love some more EMs,but it doesn`t bother me if we don`t get them.just have a look 54 tables,beyond my wildest dreams.i thought if we got 20 tables I`d be happy as a pig in mud.54 tables great collection ,I`m really really happy !!!!!