Pro Pinball

[night]

Part of the problem is that when they were created, 1600x1200 screen resolutions were considered "high end" graphics for most computers.

These days, you can find a lot of PCs with 1080p (1920x1080) screens, and tablets with 2048x1536 (iPad), 2560x1440 (Nexus 10) screens. Plus, PCs with screens of 2560x1440 or greater resolution screens aren't unusual, a popular one is 2880x1800.

So they have to go and re-do all the artwork to handle higher resolution screens.

But I don't see why you have to do a Kickstarter to redo the renderings.. There are lots of starting companies that bring out games. Look at Revenge of the Rob-o-Bot. No Kickstarter. I understand if you want to team up with a famous pinball designer and release brandnew tables for various platforms you need the cash. But for a release for iOS/Android, and just Timeshock..?

 

[Jamman39]

It's hard enough to get noticed on the App Store. Even if you partner with a famous designer and have a slick new engine there is a better than average chance that your game will get buried. If they were to just do a mediocre release and hope to fund the new engine that way, there's very little chance that they would get the funding they need.

 

[Nik Barbour]

But I don't see why you have to do a Kickstarter to redo the renderings.. There are lots of starting companies that bring out games. Look at Revenge of the Rob-o-Bot. No Kickstarter. I understand if you want to team up with a famous pinball designer and release brandnew tables for various platforms you need the cash. But for a release for iOS/Android, and just Timeshock..?

I'd agree with Night.
I personally think the flip side is, Kickstarter offers an alternative to taking risks anymore. In the last promo video, the dev had a very nice house, he could remortgage that bad boy - or we could fund it for him no obligation. (what happens if a successful kickstarter doesn't pay its backers rewards - there must be a case of this now?)

I like Pro Pinball, and if they were supporting Android up front would have backed them, simply because I want the final product.
But on the flip side, it doesn't say much of the devs belief in his product, that he won't invest his own money or borrow or partner to achieve the goal.

I prefer TPA's use of kickstarter. They fund the core themselves, but use kickstarter to achieve the extraordinary.

I'd much rather back Anders (Rob o Bot) simply because he's achieved what he has by his own skills.

BTW - weather is still pants here, just to get back on topic!

 

[Jamman39]

And actually I agree with you Nik. I think kickstarter is a terrible 'business' model that forces the consumer to take all of the risk on a project. My point was simply that doing a half baked release to attempt to fund a real release on the most flooded digital marketplace the world has ever seen is a recipe for disaster, kickstarter is a much safer bet for Silverball

 

[night]

Their aims are too high, that's why the first kickstarter failed. Team up with Pat Lawlor, various platforms, hello! Start small think big. I mean, great demo on the iPad, now finish the game, and if it's bloody good I'll buy it. That's how you make money in the real world.

 

[Worf]

And actually I agree with you Nik. I think kickstarter is a terrible 'business' model that forces the consumer to take all of the risk on a project. My point was simply that doing a half baked release to attempt to fund a real release on the most flooded digital marketplace the world has ever seen is a recipe for disaster, kickstarter is a much safer bet for Silverball

The best part of kickstarter is people like you don't have to participate in them.

But it enables businesses to take risks that they otherwise wouldn't.

Ever wonder why there's very few people taking risks in games? Why we're seeing sequels in movies and games? It's because businesses are conservative and they're going for what makes money.

They aren't going to take a risk. What Kickstarter allows is two things. First, it raises a small amount of capital (sub-$1M isn't a lot of money for most financiers, and if you're not going to quadruple it, they're not interested because it's a small sum of money). Second, it proves popularity. We all claim that "If they did X, I'd buy it instantly!" Well, Kickstarter allows for that. It proves to people that there is a significant, or no interest in a product. It puts numbers down - would this game idea interest anyone? It may be interesting and you think it's cool, but if only 1000 other people are interested in it, well, the public has spoken. If it brings in 22,000 people, now there's something - there's actually interest in the concept. Sure you can do market research, but it's a tricky topic and researchers can get their samples wrong.

Sure, a traditional business could do it all, but really unless it's a sure bet, most will probably NOT have done it. At least not without solid ROI figures.

And yes, I've participated in a few kickstarters, and gotten some wicked stuff out of it. I participated in the past one, purely because I'd like to see Pro Pinball resurrected. If you wanted to wait, you can and buy it when it comes out. I personally wanted to show that there is interest in pinball and pinball games (and really, if there isn't interest in it, then just close up shop because NO ONE WAS INTERESTED). And yes, I've not funded a few interesting things because I felt they wouldn't be successful. Silverball was a bit... stretching, but they saw enough interest to want to re-do it, which is great. If they failed because few people were interested, it means no more pinball games because there's definitive proof the public isn't interested, and no publisher will touch any pinball game.

And the best part? If you think it won't succeed, or you want to wait until it's released, you can! It's just a way for those of us who are enthusiastic about something to put money where our mouths are. If you want a boxed product, well, you can wait for its release. If it's not released, you can laugh at everyone who participated.

 

[karl]

I have to agree with Worf on this one. Kickstarter is as fair as it can be. If you see kickstarter just a way to pre-order games, you take a small (very small) risk of not being satisfied. If you see it for what it is: A opportunity to support something you care about and help out a project that is having trouble for what ever reason to get started, it is a win-win situation. If you do not like the idea, think they should go another route and don't beg for your money, just don't back it. It is as simple as that.

I find it pretty absurd to give the developers financial advice on other routes. There is no way in hell Kickstarter is an easy route. It is either the last and only opportunity to see a project happening or to speed it up a couple of years at least. Kickstarter is a hassle for the developers. Instead of one publisher you have thousands of small investors that nag about and ask about a million silly things.(and give advice about everything) The money remaining after kickstarter rewards, amazon and kickstarter payments and other bumps in the road is a lot less than people think. Message to self: Angry hat off! ;-)

And to those clicking this thread hoping for some actual news about the project: My deepest apologies

 

[DaPinballWizard]

Feel for all you guys. 80 degrees and sunny here. Saw a Surfing competition yesterday. Got down to 70 the other day, brrrrr.

 

[night]

Feel for all you guys. 80 degrees and sunny here. Saw a Surfing competition yesterday. Got down to 70 the other day, brrrrr.

I have been on Honolulu, fantastic place. It took me exactly 15 minutes on the beach before I was completely sun-burned and I had to spend 5 days in the shadow drinking blue-hawaii all day.

 

[Jamman39]

The best part of kickstarter is people like you don't have to participate in them.

But it enables businesses to take risks that they otherwise wouldn't.

Ever wonder why there's very few people taking risks in games? Why we're seeing sequels in movies and games? It's because businesses are conservative and they're going for what makes money.

They aren't going to take a risk. What Kickstarter allows is two things. First, it raises a small amount of capital (sub-$1M isn't a lot of money for most financiers, and if you're not going to quadruple it, they're not interested because it's a small sum of money). Second, it proves popularity. We all claim that "If they did X, I'd buy it instantly!" Well, Kickstarter allows for that. It proves to people that there is a significant, or no interest in a product. It puts numbers down - would this game idea interest anyone? It may be interesting and you think it's cool, but if only 1000 other people are interested in it, well, the public has spoken. If it brings in 22,000 people, now there's something - there's actually interest in the concept. Sure you can do market research, but it's a tricky topic and researchers can get their samples wrong.

Sure, a traditional business could do it all, but really unless it's a sure bet, most will probably NOT have done it. At least not without solid ROI figures.

And yes, I've participated in a few kickstarters, and gotten some wicked stuff out of it. I participated in the past one, purely because I'd like to see Pro Pinball resurrected. If you wanted to wait, you can and buy it when it comes out. I personally wanted to show that there is interest in pinball and pinball games (and really, if there isn't interest in it, then just close up shop because NO ONE WAS INTERESTED). And yes, I've not funded a few interesting things because I felt they wouldn't be successful. Silverball was a bit... stretching, but they saw enough interest to want to re-do it, which is great. If they failed because few people were interested, it means no more pinball games because there's definitive proof the public isn't interested, and no publisher will touch any pinball game.

And the best part? If you think it won't succeed, or you want to wait until it's released, you can! It's just a way for those of us who are enthusiastic about something to put money where our mouths are. If you want a boxed product, well, you can wait for its release. If it's not released, you can laugh at everyone who participated.

Don't get me wrong ill probably back Silverball when/if this kickstarter ever goes live (to the tune of $10 or so) it just seems unfair that kickstarter will let you back something with 10's of thousands of your money but doesn't support profit sharing and can't guarantee a finished product. As a matter of fact they can't even guarantee that anyone will ever try to start the project once it's funded. Silverball could take a million dollars and then disappear into the night never to be seen again.

 

[Jeff Strong]

I'm burnt out on kickstarter.

 

[noneed4me2]

I found out later after the fact about this kick starter for pro-pinball and while it didn't make it I still have all the original pro pinball games on the PC and would love to see something new or a re-release on android from them.

P.s. I have all running on a quad socket 775 running W7 64bit ultimate without issue from the old discs. I do run in compatibility mode.

 

[Worf]

Don't get me wrong ill probably back Silverball when/if this kickstarter ever goes live (to the tune of $10 or so) it just seems unfair that kickstarter will let you back something with 10's of thousands of your money but doesn't support profit sharing and can't guarantee a finished product. As a matter of fact they can't even guarantee that anyone will ever try to start the project once it's funded. Silverball could take a million dollars and then disappear into the night never to be seen again.

Welcome to life.

If you treat it as a "pre order" guess what? It can happen to you too (see everyone who preordered Duke Nukem Forever - who saw all the companies they preordered from go bankrupt, get acquired, shut down, etc). You can plunk money down and lose it (Sony's removed some games from the VIta store - if you bought it, the only copy you have is on the memory card and you cannot download it again). You can buy a widget and find out the next day a newer faster one just came out, etc.

And yes, it's possible they'd disappear with the money. It's a risk everyone has to put up with. Which is why you don't kickstarter anymore money you can afford to lose. I'd say we're all well heeled enough that if you're spending $40 on TPA tables, you can probably do $10 and not miss it if they run away. Of course, if you're going for the $400 one, then yeah, you better be able to stomach its loss.

Then again, tons of people lots lots of money in 2008 during the financial crash, so ... (and Kickstarter arose from that - because since 2008, getting money has gotten REALLY REALLY HARD).

It's why you should read the Kickstarter page carefully, why every page has a "Who are we" and "The risks" section to give you as much information as possible. If at the end, you're still not confident, put your money elsewhere. Oh yeah, you can also ask questions before pledging, too. It's called due diligence, and even the big guys who write million dollar cheques do it. If you've ever been through a company getting a round of financing (same thing), those guys will literally sniff up everyone's butts, do cavity searches, etc, to ensure everything is on the up and up.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

What's taking them so long??? Ugh....

 

[xNiCeGuYx]

Yeah, looks like it's going to be "late fabruary" instead of "late january".

 

[SilverBalls]

The Pro Pinball website is still up, but for a couple of days the Silverball Studios site has an issue:

www.silverballstudios.com

Not sure what it means

 

[fenderbendr]

They were supposed to have a video of the new Timeshock table by now.

 

[Advalle]

The Pro Pinball website is still up, but for a couple of days the Silverball Studios site has an issue:

www.silverballstudios.com

Not sure what it means

They are probaably uplading new content, no?

 

[SilverBalls]

They are probaably uplading new content, no?

Hopefully that is what it is, it's been down 2/3 days though. Hopefully we will hear something this week.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Any news???

Anyways, ohmygosh that looks SOOOO REAL....(drools)